The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[Antipathy]

It's the year 2020, people still do not understand the value of human life.

What is the value of a man, then?

 

[Fougaro]

 

[Lemmingwise]

The Holocaust is brought up so much because it is the only genocide that the western world has a large amount of accessible information about. We know that the Soviets and the Chinese killed more people than the Nazis ever did, but how much evidence do we have of those? The people who survived did not speak out, and of those who did, there is less testimony that westerners have access to.

There's a lot more to it than just having accesible information. Just last year, in 2019, 74 years afterthe fact, the national dutch railways was coerced to pay millions for their role in transporting jews during the second world war. Mind you, they did this when the Netherlands was occupied by a foreign force.

As a redneck african american said on the montell williams show "the holocaust is big business".

For just one other example:
Israel demanding another billion from Germany in 2010:

https://www.haaretz.com/1.4881652

I don't think he was referring to that. Read his comment, it's all based on hypotheticals

Of course I was referring that. I mean I'm in the Netherlands. We call the last winter of the second world war "hunger winter". After the war, we sent thousands of kids to a brief stay in england, sweden and denmark so that they could be fed properly for a while.

Yes, my comment was a hypothetical. Since you only mentioned piles of dead kids, I asked for more details because mass death by starvation due to destroyed supply lines would not exactly be the same as genocide. I also looked for somewhat of a reversal of sides because history is written by the victors and it helps train our minds to overcome bias. I don't think all sides are interchangable and identical, but I do think they are more comparable than the average mainstream view tends to be.

The US has no shortage of examples of medically experimenting on their own civilian population, often without their knowledge. Maybe not to the degree nazi germany did, and maybe much worse, it's the kind if thing that only comes to light when a conqueror can use propaganda rooted in truth against the conquered.

With that said, I thank you for elaborating on what your pops saw.

 

[potato in mah painus]

Zyklon B wasn't raw hydrogen cyanide. It was a "safe" form of hydrogen cyanide with stabilizers added to avoid explosions.
And the lethal dose levels are orders of magnitude lower than the explosive levels.

The stabilizer and eye irritant were for transport and safety for the pesticide applicator. The end result is still hydrogen cyanide gas when the compound is used. I recommend you do some research on how fumigants are used, and how product or reactive surfaces reduce the effective dose. If the nazis did all this in airtight steel lined rooms then it may have been effective and safe for the operators, but historical photos of all the camps prove that wasn't the case.

 

[Recoil]

Lol one thing that blows my mind about that shit is that one witness said "human hair was used for mattresses," and no one ever thought to ask "well, where are these mattresses now?"

I saw a museum exhibit as a kid - it was full of toothbrushes, dentures, prosthetic legs and (IIRC) shorn hair. You can find pictures of it online, but if you're a denier you're gonna say all that shit can be faked anyway.

 

[Super-Chevy454]

There's a lot more to it than just having accesible information. Just last year, in 2019, 74 years afterthe fact, the national dutch railways was coerced to pay millions for their role in transporting Trump's Chosen People during the second world war. Mind you, they did this when the Netherlands was occupied by a foreign force.

As a redneck african american said on the montell williams show "the holocaust is big business".

That clip is still on Youtube.

I mentionned in an earlier post, the "Holocaust fatigue", besides that, there was some survivors who was forgotten. https://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/14/opinion/14rosenbaum.html

http://archive.vn/qUNEm

THE Holocaust has always been marked by numbers. There was the numbering of arms in death camps and the staggering death toll where the words six million became both a body count and a synonym for an unspeakable crime. After the Holocaust, Germany performed the necessary long division in paying token reparations to survivors. More recently, Swiss banks and European insurance companies have concealed bank account and policy numbers belonging to dead Jews.
Only with the Holocaust have dehumanization and death been as much a moral mystery as a tragic game of arithmetic. And the numbers continue, although now largely in reverse.
After 60 years, Holocaust survivors are inching toward extinction. According to Ira Sheskin, director of the Jewish Demography Project at the University of Miami, fewer than 900,000 remain, residing primarily in the United States, Israel and the former Soviet Union. Most are in their 80s and 90s. Unless immediate measures are taken, many of those who survived the Nazi evil will soon die without a proper measure of dignity.
According to Dr. Sheskin’s data, more than 87,000 American Holocaust survivors — roughly half the American total — qualify as poor, meaning they have annual incomes below $15,000. The United Jewish Communities, the umbrella organization of the American Jewish Federations, determined that 25 percent of the American survivors live at or below the official federal poverty line. (The poverty figure in New York City is even higher.) Many are without sufficient food, shelter, heat, health care, medicine, dentures, eyeglasses, even hearing aids.

 

[Dom Cruise]

i literally cringed when i read this one dude ngl

It's some real creepy, deranged shit isn't it?

 

[Celebrate Nite]

Put me in the "Deniers" category. I've lurked 8ch /pol/ for so long to where some posts have made some compelling arguments against the Holocaust... so much so I decided to take the advice of a couple "beginner's red pill" guide and buy "Adolf Hitler, The Greatest Story Never Told".

If that makes me Autistic or a Nazi, then so be it.

 

[dopy]

i deny it purely because 6 million is an embarrassingly low number. the planet alderaan was 2 billion and the galactic empire vaporized it in front of princess leia without blinking an eye. by that comparison alone, this hitler fella really wasn't putting the work in to get the job done, in my very humble opinion.

 

[no_mad_johnny]

lol of course it happened

I realize that for whatever ideological reasons people may deny it but taking into consideration that Jews weren't the only people at camps and that the other prisoners lived long enough to tell the tale and not gain fame or monetary compensation for it, one can easily deduce that the Holocaust happened indeed.

Genocides aren't really that uncommon. The Rwandan genocide was less than thirty years ago.

Spoiler: little powerlevel

I once lived somewhere close to a concentration camp. The camp has been converted to a museum and the installations are extremely well preserved.

Probably not the camp where people were burned —it was more of a working facility for short term prisoners to be taken to bigger camps somewhere else.

Still, a creepy place.

 

[RichardMongler]

Just because I sort of underemphasized it in the OP, here's a very comprehensive blog by one SirAaronRichards:

https://imgur.com/a/725A7

The entry greatly details and cites sources affirming that the Holocaust, indeed, happened and could very well have been orchestrated from the top down. Other entries featured there are entirely peripheral to the Holocaust (Khazar theory, Marx's ancestry, et cetera), but the substance concerns the Holocaust.

Would like to here what the deniers have to say about it.

 

[Ow The Edge]

Radical opinion: it happened and I don't care. It was neither the first, nor the last, nor the worst of the genocides of its era. No one alive is guilty of it, and no outstanding debts are owed this side of the veil. It's well past time we quit allowing ourselves to get melodramatic about it.

 

[Mr Himmler]

This thread is the sole reason I have some faith in the farmers.

 

[Lemmingwise]

Just because I sort of underemphasized it in the OP, here's a very comprehensive blog by one SirAaronRichards:

https://imgur.com/a/725A7

The entry greatly details and cites sources affirming that the Holocaust, indeed, happened and could very well have been orchestrated from the top down. Other entries featured there are entirely peripheral to the Holocaust (Khazar theory, Marx's ancestry, et cetera), but the substance concerns the Holocaust.

Would like to here what the deniers have to say about it.

I like his cataloging of the the landscape, but I do find it hard to take him serious when he describes rationalwiki as a "nice website".

 

[RichardMongler]

I like his cataloging of the the landscape, but I do find it hard to take him serious when he describes rationalwiki as a "nice website".

Indeed, his POV is fucking obnoxious, but he presents extensively detailed information. As far as I know, none of his citations are factually inaccurate with regards to the Holocaust. Of course, he doesn't help his case when he mocks the Holodomor as Ukrainian propaganda:

"The Holodomor is the real holocaust!!!111"

2810 views on Imgur

imgur.com

The guy is an asshole, but an informative asshole.

 

[Lemmingwise]

Of course, he doesn't help his case when he mocks the Holodomor as Ukrainian propaganda:

Commies gonna commie.

I mean, he calls reading books research. He cites one side and not the other. Still, I suppose him listing a lot of people can help as a sort of guide what to read as a starter pack.

 

[RichardMongler]

Commies gonna commie.

The guy calls himself a centrist and has previously condemned Communism. From his own userpage:

I am Aaron Richards, hobby history buff, science student, political centrist, atheist, European, youtuber and /pol/ack. A combination of being called a Jew due to my username and encountering theories on said browsing mediums combined with my own love for history led me to the rabbit hole of holocaust research. Refuting 40 years of antisemitism can be a laborious, but rewarding and fun task, as you will find out in my Holocaust Documents album. Historians might be far more accurate than I am in my blog, but they need to step up their game and offer interactive debunking websites or it'll be up to poor sods like me to offer illustrated rebuttals to internet conspiracy theories for the general public.

 

[mr.moon1488]

Radical opinion: it happened and I don't care. It was neither the first, nor the last, nor the worst of the genocides of its era. No one alive is guilty of it, and no outstanding debts are owed this side of the veil. It's well past time we quit allowing ourselves to get melodramatic about it.

Personally, I think it happened, but I certainly don't think the numbers were anywhere near six million, and many of the stories about it are doubtlessly fabrications from people who likely weren't even there, and just wanted attention. As for the Nuremberg trials, that was doubtlessly a kangaroo court. Some of the defendants should have been found guilty, but there were some that certainly had a reasonable doubt to their guilt, and this was despite the fact that none of the accused received what could be called a "vigorous defense." Hearsay testimony was admitted, there was little to no cross-examination, and evidence was admitted without it being first disclosed to the defense. You could convict pretty much anyone of anything with trials conducted like that.

 

[Lemmingwise]

I'd like to ask a question to anyone reading this.

It's a question I haven't seen asked before, so it just might spark some new discussion.

I was talking with some friends about the holocaust, as you do, and one asked "what does it matter if it's 6 or 5 million?"

On the one hand his question is stunning, because why wouldn't truthseeking matter? But on the other it was asked with honesty. Would you really look differently at the past whether it's 6 or 5 million?

So here then is my question, at what number would the holocaust cease to be a holocaust?

 

[Dom Cruise]

Put me in the "Deniers" category. I've lurked 8ch /pol/ for so long to where some posts have made some compelling arguments against the Holocaust... so much so I decided to take the advice of a couple "beginner's red pill" guide and buy "Adolf Hitler, The Greatest Story Never Told".

If that makes me Autistic or a Nazi, then so be it.

See, that's what we call good old fashioned brainwashing and you shouldn't let yourself fall prey to it.

In places like /pol/ shit gets repeated so often that spend enough time there and you'll start to believe whatever the hive mind says, doesn't make it true though.

It's a mirror image of what's also happening in SJW circles online and why for example transgenderism has become a social contagion, spend enough time in those online circles hearing the message of "gender is whatever you want it to be" over and over and you can be manipulated into believing it.

It's a very creepy and very dangerous phenomenon of the internet that these echo chambers can have a brain washing effect on people.