UK The question no one dares ask: what if Britain has to defend itself from the US? - By George Monbiot - AgitatedGerbil is this you?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/feb/27/britain-defend-itself-us-military

https://archive.ph/RDOJR

The question no one dares ask: what if Britain has to defend itself from the US?
George Monbiot

So much of our intelligence and military systems are shared or reliant on the US – if it becomes the enemy, it is already inside the gates
Thu 27 Feb 2025 09.00 CET

All the talk now is of how we might defend ourselves without the US. But almost everyone with a voice in public life appears to be avoiding a much bigger and more troubling question: how we might defend ourselves against the US.

As Keir Starmer visits the orange emperor’s court in Washington, let’s first consider the possibilities. I can’t comment on their likelihood, and I fervently hope that people with more knowledge and power than me are gaming them. One is that Donald Trump will not only clear the path for Vladimir Putin in Ukraine, but will actively assist him. We know that Trump can brook no challenge to his hegemony. Russia is no threat to US dominance, but Europe, with a combined economy similar to that of the US, and a powerful diplomatic and global political presence, could be.

Putin has long sought to break up the EU, using the European far right as his proxies: this is why he invested so heavily in Brexit. Now Trump, in turn, could use Putin as his proxy, to attack a rival centre of power. If Trump helps Russia sweep through Ukraine, Putin could then issue an ultimatum to other frontline and eastern European states: leave the EU, leave Nato and become a client state like Belarus, or you’re next.

In Hungary, Viktor Orbán might agree to this. If Călin Georgescu wins in Romania in May, he might too.
What form could US support for Putin in Ukraine take? It could involve intelligence sharing. It could involve permanently withdrawing Elon Musk’s Starlink satellite internet service from Ukraine, which is strategically crucial there, while making it available to the Russian armed forces. Already, the US government has threatened to nix the service if Ukraine doesn’t hand over its minerals, as reparations for being invaded. This is how Trump operates: blackmailing desperate people who are seeking to defend themselves against an imperial war, regardless of past alliances. In the extreme case, Trump’s support for Russia might involve military equipment and financial backing, or even joint US-Russian operations, in the Arctic or elsewhere.

Now consider our vulnerabilities. Through the “Five Eyes” partnership, the UK automatically shares signals intelligence, human intelligence and defence intelligence with the US government. Edward Snowden’s revelations showed that the US, with the agreement of our government, conducts wholesale espionage on innocent UK citizens. The two governments, with other western nations, run a wide range of joint intelligence programmes, such as Prism, Echelon, Tempora and XKeyscore. The US National Security Agency (NSA) uses the UK agency GCHQ as a subcontractor.
All this is now overseen by Tulsi Gabbard, Trump’s director of national intelligence, in charge of the CIA, NSA and 16 other agencies. After she recited conspiracy fictions seeded by the Syrian and Russian governments, she was widely accused of being a “Russian asset” or a “Russian puppet”. At what point do we conclude that by sharing intelligence with the US, the UK might as well be sharing it with Russia?

Depending on whose definitions you accept, the US has either 11 or 13 military bases and listening stations in the UK. They include the misnamed RAF Lakenheath in Suffolk, actually a US air force base, from which it deploys F-35 jets; RAF Menwith Hill in North Yorkshire, in reality a US NSA base conducting military espionage and operational support; RAF Croughton, part-operated by the CIA, which allegedly used the base to spy on Angela Merkel among many others; and RAF Fylingdales, part of the US Space Surveillance Network. If the US now sides with Russia against the UK and Europe, these could just as well be Russian bases and listening stations.
Then we come to our weapon systems. Like everyone without security clearance, I can make no well-informed statement on the extent to which any of them, nuclear or conventional, are operationally independent of the US. But I know, to give just one example, that among the crucial components of our defence are F-35 stealth jets, designed and patented in the US. How stealthy they will turn out to be, when the US has the specs, the serial numbers and the software, is a question that needs an urgent answer.

Nor can I make any confident statement about the extent to which weapons designed here might be dependent on US central processing units and other digital technologies, or on US systems such as Starlink, owned by Musk, or GPS, owned by the US Space Force. Which of our weapons systems could achieve battle-readiness without US involvement and consent? Which could be remotely disabled by the US military? At the very least, the US will know better than any other power how to combat them, because our weapons are more or less the same as theirs. In other words, if the US is now our enemy, the enemy is inside the gate.

Much as I hate to admit it, the UK needs to rearm (though cutting the aid budget to find the money, as Keir Starmer intends, is astonishingly shortsighted). I reluctantly came to this conclusion as Trump’s numbers began to stack up last July. But, if they are fatally compromised by US penetration, rearmament might have to begin with the complete abandonment of our existing weapons and communications systems.

This may need to start very soon. On 24 February, the UN general assembly voted on a Ukrainian resolution, co-sponsored by the UK and other European nations, condemning Russia’s invasion. Unsurprisingly, Russia, Belarus, North Korea, Hungary and several small and easily cowed states voted against it. But so did the US and Israel. This, more clearly than any other shift, exposes the new alignment. An axis of autocracy, facilitating an imperial war of aggression, confronts nations committed (albeit to varying degrees) to democracy and international law.
For many years, we have been urged to trust the UK’s oppressive “security state”. Yes, this security state is yanked around like a fish on a line by the US government, with such catastrophic outcomes as the US-UK invasion of Iraq. Yes, it is engaged in mass surveillance of its own citizens. But, its defenders have long argued, we should suck all this up because the security state is essential to our defence from hostile foreign actors. In reality, our entanglement, as many of us have long warned, presents a major threat to national security. By tying our defence so closely to the US, our governments have created an insecurity state.

I hope you can now see what a terrible mistake the UK has made, and how we should have followed France in creating more independent military and security systems. Disentangling from the US will be difficult and expensive. Failing to do so could carry a far higher price.

George Monbiot is a Guardian columnist faggot
 
I think I saw that book once. It looked pretty fucking insane. (It was some Alternate-History crack fueled insanity about Britain trying to support the Confederacy, fucking up, and the USA and Tsarist Russia teaming up to destroy them)
Actually in one point the British were building a secret battlefleet for the Confederate Army that is 100 per cent plausible ultimate history scenario seeing how Russia was on the side of the union
 
I'm not even sure going back to the '80s would be far enough: We'd need to go back to the '60s and un-cancel Blue Streak and TSR2 to retain the advantage we used to have.

Setting aside the malding about Trump, I guess it's nice that they've noticed we've been sat in the cuck chair for fucking decades, but I don't see us getting out of it any time soon.
80's level would at least mean being able to conceivably have independent operations instead of just tagging along with wherever the US was going.

I know it wasn't the high water mark of military strength, but it was at least the last time in my lifetime UK troops were a plausibly deployable threat in any continental conflict and the submarine force was truly up to scratch.

Actually at one point the British were building a secret battlefleet for the Confederate Army that is 100 per cent plausible ultimate history scenario seeing how Russia was on the side of the union
Fun fact, the US sued the Brits after the war for all the damage that British-built Confederate Navy ships had done to their merchant and whaling fleets (Confederate doctrine was basically WWII commerce raiding as they never had enough of a force to challenge the Union blockade directly) and won a settlement .

Due to communications limitations? The last shots fired in anger during the Civil War were those from CSS Shenandoah , a Confederate sloop that was unaware the war was over and continued raiding shipping until late 1865.
 
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Yes, the US would be absolutely fine if we left NATO and signed a sweetheart security cooperation deal with China tomorrow and handed them over our nukes and a nice big chunk of the Atlantic and the entirety of Milton Keynes to concrete over into a massive airbase. Yes. That would absolutely be no fucking problem and the US state would do absolutely nothing to get in the way of that.

I know a lot of you are young but you have to start seeing things as they are, not as you think they 'should' be according to internet manifestos from youtubers. A client state on the shoulder of Europe is a significant global power asset to the US. That is why MI5 spent pretty much all of the 1950s through 1980s infiltrating and surveilling the fucking Labour party, of all the seditious organisations, to make sure they weren't getting too Soviet or any of that.

Government is the art of the possible. Whatever 'ideals' or 'theories' any government fever dreams in the years before it is elected, it swallows a large burning dose of reality shortly after. The US knows how best to keep the UK comfortably under the thumb and the UK knows exactly how much backchat the Americans will tolerate. Until the UK is physically situated somewhere else on the globe, things will remain exactly as they have been for nigh on a century.
And probably indefinitely since unlike most countries, the USA and the UK speak the same language despite being separated by thousands of Kilometers. And at a fundamental level both the US and the UK share similar cultural and governing traditions. The Americans just claim the "British" are not as "English" as the "Americans" are when it comes to things like individual rights, property, and so on.

Once you understand this, the dynamic between the USA and the UK is far easier to understand. The Americans view the UK with the Contempt of them not being American, and the UK views the Americans with the contempt of not being British, but both claim to inherit the true traditions and heritage of England. The funniest part about all this is that both the British AND the Americans studiously ignore the English as a cohesive single national entity when it comes to their law, culture and practice.
 
Fun fact, the US sued the Brits after the war for all the damage that British-built Confederate Navy ships had done to their merchant and whaling fleets (Confederate doctrine was basically WWII commerce raiding as they never had enough of a force to challenge the Union blockade directly) and won a settlement .

Due to communications limitations? The last shots fired in anger during the Civil War were those from CSS Shenandoah , a Confederate sloop that was unaware the war was over and continued raiding shipping until late 1865.
Due to a quirk in English law armed ships couldn't be bought, and English-bought armaments couldn't be mounted in English waters... so the Confederates bought totally-not-warships bereft of armament, loaded the ship's cannons on a separate merchant ship, and then had them rendezvous elsewhere so the guns could be mounted. The big issue was that the Confederacy was never actually recognized as a nation, so English companies were selling ships and weapons to what were technically pirates as far as the law there was concerned. Had the Confederacy won I'm certain the English would have retroactively recognized them, thus giving the USA zero room to press damages, but of course they lost and so they were forced to pay out.

The French however went even further with their support with Napoleon III deciding to quite illegally under French law let the CSA order a pair of ironclads under fake names (Cheops and Sphinx) so people would think they were being sold to the Egyptians and not the CSA. A pissed-off shipyard clerk walked into our diplomatic offices, dropped down receipts, we threw a shitfit, and the man who was building them went "lol sucks to be you" to the CSA and sold one ship to Denmark and one to Prussia, both of whom were engaging in the Second Schleswig War against each other at the time. Ah, France...
 
Aren't the UK Conservatives to the left of the US Democrats?
Many people have been indoctrinated to fear freedom.
It'd be like adding a new California, but with worse weather.
Could end up with more than one state - England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland.
 
  • Thunk-Provoking
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We'll accept the chinks and the niggers, but no Irish.
This is defeatist talk. Chinks and Niggers did not spring from the soil of Albion. Misbegotten though they may be, the Irish are more bro...cousins to us then the nigger. We can build an Empire with them. But the African and Muslim is no relation and cannot have a home in the new glorious Anglo Imperium.
 
It looks like the UK monarchy died with Queen Elizabeth. Now it's just globohomo stooges
You mean the first Queen Elizabeth, right? Because it was the second who sat on her regal tush while nation and empire went to complete shit.

That said, once we effect armed reunification with our angloid... relatives... we should keep the monarchy to reassure their simple minds that their needs are still attended to. They'll still be puppets of course.
 
  • Agree
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Here's an interesting follow up question: if we did invade the UK, would anyone there actually be willing to fight and die to defend it? How many young men are ready and willing to take a bullet for Sir Cunt Starmer?
 
Here's an interesting follow up question: if we did invade the UK, would anyone there actually be willing to fight and die to defend it? How many young men are ready and willing to take a bullet for Sir Cunt Starmer?
Especially if our purpose was what it’d probably be: re-empower those young men and help them take their country back.
 
Your Second Amendment won't let me own a tank
I know this has already been adequately replied to, but when I was stockpiling money to buy a house I half-jokingly considered buying a demilled T-55 instead (and more seriously considered buying a BMP/BRDM) if the market continued to spiral. The current restrictions on the Second Amendment (all blatantly unconstitutional of course) exist almost exclusively to deprive the poor of this natural right (see the nature of the permission stamp fees). If you're rich and well connected enough, you can drive a fully armed and operational MBT down the road as long as you use road-safe treads. Several people maintain private air fleets, I personally know a guy who owns a WWII bomber, there's all those tank parks and fancy machine gun rental places...

You have a point about the mines though, but I do understand that. Keep and *bare* arms, you can't bare a minefield or a shotgun trap... but you *can* construct manually operated traps, a shotgun on a string for instance, also presumably a claymore mine. Just can't hook it to a tripwire, has to be on a clacker. Still, until I can fit my home with automated popup 20mm autocannons we won't truly be free.
 
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