Warhammer 40k

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Goddamnit Puppets of War, don't make me want to do a Ork army.

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Emperork of Orkkind.
 
Humble Architect said:
You shittalked Gayle and paid homage to the primarch in one post, you done good.

GW made a ruleset for Cursed Founding Chapters back in the day, outright encouraging kitbashing, crafting your own parts and making your own part of the world, we used to be a people.
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And where had GW even stopped this exactly? They don’t you guys really tend to view the old days in this cargo cult mentality it gets grating.

The only Warhammer fanbase I see true creativity in Warhammer is heresy. You’ll scream its marine spam but every army always has a tinge of creativity.
 
I really like the work that the sororitas tanks put into rolling damage dice. Going down a unit of sisters and a rhino in order to field another castigator tank. I wound up also replacing my 10 flagellants with a unit of repentia because they seem to do better charging and get that -2 AP.
 
Does anyone have advice for wargaming while saving space?

Recently been watching videos on One Page Rules. My main concern is storage space is limited. I saw a video about having a wargame in a single file folder, but that was basically card with minis painted on it. Another video was about board game collections that fit in a shoebox.

Playing the game is going to be near impossible as the local Games Workshop and wargaming centers have closed, and the only local player is a guy that cheats like crazy. I never got into Infinity for this reason.


A related, non-40k question (might be worth making another thread?) but are clix still a thing? I remember buying a pack of Halo Clix when they were being sold off back in the day, and I thought the models and the small map it came with were neat. Their used to be a line of super hero related ones called Hero Clix. I'm mainly after the maps, but some hero models as proxies wouldn't hurt either.

On the subject, what are some good UK alternatives to games workshop for models? Again, all the local hobby places are closed, and while there's paper models, most I see online are US companies that require shipping, which seems dumb for a 3D print.
 
Judge Dredd said:
Does anyone have advice for wargaming while saving space?

Recently been watching videos on One Page Rules. My main concern is storage space is limited. I saw a video about having a wargame in a single file folder, but that was basically card with minis painted on it. Another video was about board game collections that fit in a shoebox.

Playing the game is going to be near impossible as the local Games Workshop and wargaming centers have closed, and the only local player is a guy that cheats like crazy. I never got into Infinity for this reason.


A related, non-40k question (might be worth making another thread?) but are clix still a thing? I remember buying a pack of Halo Clix when they were being sold off back in the day, and I thought the models and the small map it came with were neat. Their used to be a line of super hero related ones called Hero Clix. I'm mainly after the maps, but some hero models as proxies wouldn't hurt either.

On the subject, what are some good UK alternatives to games workshop for models? Again, all the local hobby places are closed, and while there's paper models, most I see online are US companies that require shipping, which seems dumb for a 3D print.
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Well, you can get a 3d printer yourself, but that requires a bunch of space to work with it.

Hero clix still exist, but they've gotten dumb. Imagine if 40k kept marines on 25mm or whatever it was, but sized everything as a primaris terminator or whatever so they're all on a weird tactical rock because the models are huge now. Even the ones that would fix on the bases, they're still on something to make them taller as it was a way to get kids to want to buy new batman variant #15. You can see what I mean on their site(assuming you can get it to load)
All artificially made taller
Here you can see some of the characters that didn't actually need to be as big as they are but they did it anyway

The line is just ridiculous and I haven't seen anyone buying it at a game store in years(I don't even think any in my area even stock it anymore).

As far as OPR and actually playing a game with minis, stick to skirmish stuff. grimdark future firefight is their lower model count game. Kill Team from GW would be another. You mentioned being in the UK, I imagine there's got to be an Infinity scene somewhere that doesn't involve the cheater.

But if all the local stuff really has closed(there's seriously nothing within an hour? sheesh), then getting a 3d printer or a handful of minis for something like Firefight or Infinity wouldn't do you any good either. In that case... go try tabletop sim. Communities exist(will mean putting up with trannies and shit on discord) but it won't take up space.
 
p1138 said:
The preorder bonus for space marine 2 is the stupid 4 day early access(in other words, late access for people not preordering the game). Not a beta. What is there to sue for, that you registered for a public beta that didn't happen?
View attachment 6141826

Now if they cancelled the 4 day early access thing, sure you might have a case for a suit for that. But that isn't what happened.
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I hate season passes. and I have my doubts about this game being turn into live service grind-a-thon with hub aka Darktide
also, I made quite a number of songs in Suno. shameless selfpromotion: here's an archive of it all
 
Judge Dredd said:
A related, non-40k question (might be worth making another thread?) but are clix still a thing? I remember buying a pack of Halo Clix when they were being sold off back in the day, and I thought the models and the small map it came with were neat. Their used to be a line of super hero related ones called Hero Clix. I'm mainly after the maps, but some hero models as proxies wouldn't hurt either.
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They still sell Heroclix, but I'm pretty sure no one buys them but me, and even I only buy a few singles a year. I have an old Metallo model that I want to kitbash into a Chaos Android, someday.
 
p1138 said:
But if all the local stuff really has closed(there's seriously nothing within an hour? sheesh), then getting a 3d printer or a handful of minis for something like Firefight or Infinity wouldn't do you any good either.
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Yeah. You're probably right. That's kind of what I'm afraid of.

Going to power level a bit. TLDR I swore off 40k years ago because no one would play. It's only gotten worse.

I had played it as a teen (2nd and 3rd) and then got back into it years later. (My guess was around 2008) I collected Tau, but no one would play when I took them to Games Workshop. Excuses varied. They were weak (insert Penny Arcade list comic here), they "didn't fit the 40k lore", and so like an idiot I got a set of Space Marines. No one would play me still citing vague excuses like "everyone plays marines" or just not wanting to play today.

Third party places didn't fare better. A local "battle centre" was a ghost town, the local hobby shops didn't play as they were all about the models, and nerd shops were more focused on Magic The Gathering. Even a local board game club wouldn't play them as they were more about Catan, Power Grid, Agricola, and the like. One guy who played historical games was mad because 40k has army lists ("a real general doesn't pick his army, he goes to war with the army he has"), and another local guy is the previously mentioned cheater.

Most of those places closed between me leaving the hobby and today. I'm guessing COVID took them out. Trying to search online brings up listings for places that don't exist. eg. The "battle centre" is now a tile/bathroom shop. Even if these places still existed, I don't know if they'd have a different culture or be the same bunch of people more interested in theorycraft than actually rolling dice.


Maybe it's just my location, but while American's talk about GW being the biggest game in town. In the UK they are (or were) the only game in town. I saw sets for games like DUST 1947 and Warmachine rarely, and I never saw them played. Oddly enough, I've seen Space Hulk, Monsterpocalypse, and X-wing get played, likely because they were far enough away from wargaming to be considered board games.

My hope is that something like OPR is open and simple enough I can talk some people into trying it. It wouldn't have the expansive rules or model snobbery of 40k. Especially if I find a map with a grid on it, since OPR doesn't use blast templates, and getting rid of the tape measure could be an easier sell. But I think you might be right. Getting models without players won't make new players appear.

ForTheHoard said:
Aside from my army and dice, all I bring is my phone.
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I should have clarified.

I own some models spread around the house among miscellaneous junk. Tau that I keep in a box that these days would be called a Battle Patrol (at the time Battle Force). Ditto Space Marines. I have/had some Gorkamorka stuff in a shoe box, and a bunch of bits and terrain in a drawer, and other boxes and models here and there like the 3rd edition starter box, and Space Hulk if you count that. Practically speaking, I should get all that stuff together and sell it. I don't want to buy a bunch of stuff that will end up like those I listed.

The advice I saw online was a fold flat table for painting, and a make up bag or tackle box for keeping paints and glues. Model storage I've never seen addressed, and I don't have the space to become a hoarder of plastic crap. The idea of a dedicated hobby room is a pipe dream.

I mentioned Clix in part because the Halo pack I bought came with a cool looking paper map with a grid on it. While terrain is my favourite aspect of modeling, paper maps would be a great way to save space. Infinity has some card buildings that look great and, save for the plastic pegs the roof sits on, lie flat.
Others have little slots and tabs and slide together. Slightly longer set up on those, but again, lie flat. There's also game neutral mdf and papercraft terrain, but that doesn't fold away between uses.

Paper minis seem a bit naff, and those 40k brief cases are expansive.
 
I saw an interesting post recently, it talks about how wargaming as a whole is simply dying while RPGs are thriving.

I see a lot of arguments that 40k is dying which yeah I can see how 10th ruffled but I’m not exactly seeing other games get played. I see exclamations that everyone is either playing older editions or fan rules but I recently actually worked on Infinity models because it’s a game I always wanted to play/get models for but even then the community online anywhere is DEAD. I think wargaming is just going on a major decline. You just have Warhammer and random skirmish slop. Back then at least it felt like other games were played? Now it’s like Warhammer choked everything.



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iceteayo said:
I saw an interesting post recently, it talks about how wargaming as a whole is simply dying while RPGs are thriving.

I see a lot of arguments that 40k is dying which yeah I can see how 10th ruffled but I’m not exactly seeing other games get played. I see exclamations that everyone is either playing older editions or fan rules but I recently actually worked on Infinity models because it’s a game I always wanted to play/get models for but even then the community online anywhere is DEAD. I think wargaming is just going on a major decline. You just have Warhammer and random skirmish slop. Back then at least it felt like other games were played? Now it’s like Warhammer choked everything.
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My guy, thumbnails... please.

As far as the wargaming dying thing... nah. Battletech has definitely had an uptick over the past couple of years, it's not going to actually be competing with GW any time soon, but it's there. Conquest just launched a faction recently and people manage to run events for it. The licensed IP games are going to have problems because they're licensed IP games(shit like star wars legion/shatterpoint). Hell, I've seen more discussion about and people actually playing Bolt Action lately of all things. The 40k dying, everyone playing older editions shit is just weird cope. RTTs and GTs have no issues getting attendees unless the location is out in actual BFE. For all of the supposed hate regarding 10th, they're still doing record sales and it isn't like people continuing to play 5th, 8th, or whatever need to be buying the latest shit. Online Infinity may be dead, but I've definitely seen packed events for it recently in the US and Corvus Belli has some fantasy game they're launching eventually.

As far as the rest of the wargaming industry, it can't stop shooting itself in face. Malifaux never recovered after their mess of a third edition launch. Warmahordes has been a joke for years. X-wing was lined up against a wall and shot. Guildball was run by people who had no idea wtf they were doing, and those same people think they can salvage warmahordes(lol). Armada never took off in the first place. The Other Side was basically stillborn as Wyrd was too busy pissing off their existing Malifaux customers. GW doesn't actually do much other than exist at this point, while their competitors fuck themselves regularly or it was a trend of some licensed IP slop that wasn't going to survive very long anyway(just in the past few months there's been a halo skirmish game announced that's spartans only and trying to emulate the pvp? there was also some goofy looking star trek ship battle game that'll likely end up trying to balance the Defiant vs a borg cube... again, and fail again).

I wouldn't say RPGs are thriving either. D&D is 80% of the market, and has been collapsing on itself for years with hasbro whining about it being "under-monetized" yet they can't be bothered to release actual content for it that people might pay for. The OGL dumpster fire did spawn a bunch of "ooh, look at me!" smalltime competitors filing the OGL serial numbers off of their variant in an attempt to gain some market share but hardly anyone actually talks about that stuff outside of youtube people(similar to OPR for wargaming...) shilling a product(their own, or someone else's). Even the Critical Role guys got flak for their I think daggerheart game they played live not matching the rules 1:1 and annoying some of their audience. Hasbro themselves is doing a D&D 5.5 or whatever and will likely see a huge initial sales boost of the PHB/DMG/MM but give it a year and you'll see those communities(youtube, reddit, discord, etc) talking about being just as bored with the game again because nothing they've shown off for their revamp is actually new(it's just combining stuff from their halfassed splatbooks into the core, and re-arranging a few things here and there).

I'd say the bigger problem for both is that covid is long since over, and people have gone back to finding other shit to do. People who were only playing D&D on roll20 or whatever have other interests. A bunch of people who spent a year or two painting up their armies for whatever game they thought they were going to be interested in finally got some games in and realized they don't like wargaming, shit like that. And while GW sucks for a huge variety of reasons, don't let the anti GW grifters let you think the playerbase is abandoning 10th edition or something, because they aren't(same with AoS with 4.0 coming out in a week).
 
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iceteayo said:
I saw an interesting post recently, it talks about how wargaming as a whole is simply dying while RPGs are thriving.

I see a lot of arguments that 40k is dying which yeah I can see how 10th ruffled but I’m not exactly seeing other games get played. I see exclamations that everyone is either playing older editions or fan rules but I recently actually worked on Infinity models because it’s a game I always wanted to play/get models for but even then the community online anywhere is DEAD. I think wargaming is just going on a major decline. You just have Warhammer and random skirmish slop. Back then at least it felt like other games were played? Now it’s like Warhammer choked everything.
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Is there actually a significant decline, either in 40k or in the scene as a whole? I'll certainly agree that there's been a move towards skirmish games, but if you're a Disney adult who enjoys dropping money on brand, there are a number of successful wargames in the form of Star Wars Shatterpoint/Legion and Marvel Crisis Point. There's also Battletech, which has had a resurgence in recent years and is at least on par with those. Other games aren't dead either, although many of the old names are, due to a mixture of incompetence by the studios themselves and incompetence by their management - see Asmodee/Embracer for the latter.
GW, meanwhile, is doing well and has recently opened a new factory, hardly a sign of downsizing in the face of troubled waters.

COVID was an unprecedented boom for all indoor hobbies and many companies are having to face reality, but it's not been the end of the world for most. Grogs will grumble about things by definition, but the industry will survive. My expectation is that every 40k edition other than 7th has been the most successful of the game's history for its run and I'd be somewhat surprised if 10e were another exception, almost regardless of quality.

The RPG market, meanwhile, basically hasn't existed outside of D&D for a long while at this point. With wargames, you can at least point to a second tier of games after 40k (and it's currently robust enough that Age of Sigmar may not even reach it despite being by all accounts a somewhat-successful game), but every major D&D competitor is dead or on life support; the only reason things might look livelier is because it's much cheaper to publish your hearbreaker than it is to make a proper wargame, especially if you actually want to sell to Zoomers and need a miniature line rather than chits.

I see that @p1138 has posted in the meanwhile and said more or less the same thing.
 
Penne Dreadful said:
Is there actually a significant decline, either in 40k or in the scene as a whole? I'll certainly agree that there's been a move towards skirmish games, but if you're a Disney adult who enjoys dropping money on brand, there are a number of successful wargames in the form of Star Wars Shatterpoint/Legion
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I mean… they do have Clone Wars as an option now with Republic Commandos. Give me all the soyjaks but if they add some more vehicle stuff it’ll be pretty neat game to Wargame with friends.

Until now I’m just waiting for Bolt Action 3rd addition to see if I really want to make the switch
 
Infinity’s online presence is basically non existent now but I’m told it’s still kicking in certain gaming scenes.

Honestly if they got a video game or something it would get them on top. Video games really do help a lot more than people wanna admit.
 
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