Warhammer 40k

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Those weren't choices, that was 40k in its entirety up until halfway through 9th. What are choices would be anyone saying otherwise as they're either
A: Lying
B: Were lucky and on the good end of the shitty balance and never paid attention to the rest of the game
C: Have a serious case of rose tinted nostalgia goggles
D: Were and maybe still are one of those people that plays maybe once a year and just never noticed anything
Buddy, I played guard for from 6th to 9th, so dont lecture me about shitty balance. I got fucked in 8th and 9th, since for 8th they released our codex so early on we got codex creeped for the rest of the edition, and then in 9th, only got our codex until what, 3 months before the end of the edition? Even then, I was still able to comfortably play my army and win plenty of games. Im not saying previous editions where great, but I still had fun and I rather liked features like points for wargear, over this new streamlined slop that gets shit out with every passing edition.
 
Buddy, I played guard for from 6th to 9th, so dont lecture me about shitty balance. I got fucked in 8th and 9th, since for 8th they released our codex so early on we got codex creeped for the rest of the edition, and then in 9th, only got our codex until what, 3 months before the end of the edition? Even then, I was still able to comfortably play my army and win plenty of games. Im not saying previous editions where great, but I still had fun and I rather liked features like points for wargear, over this new streamlined slop that gets shit out with every passing edition.
Streamlined slop would be OPR that's had anything possibly interesting streamlined right out of it but hey you get to pick some war gear, whoopdeedoo. I'm not going to pretend that 10th edition is some paragon of wargaming rules, but prior it's been dogshit. If you've got a game where someone making an honest attempt at list building can show up to a game and may as well not even play because the game is that fucking lopsided(which was past editions of 40k, and some other games as well), it's fucking trash.
 
Im not saying previous editions where great, but I still had fun and I rather liked features like points for wargear, over this new streamlined slop that gets shit out with every passing edition.
I think the point is that currently there's an illusion of choice. You may have 20+ options, but if half of those options are shit what's the point? For example why does a shock trooper sergeant come with a laspistol if there is a free upgrade to a bolt pistol that is literally the same profile but with +1 S? There is clearly a correct choice.

In some ways 10th edition is giving players too much choice, in others not enough. Space Marines have too many detachment options for a generic army and they all have to be balanced against each other since the same army could in theory choose any one of them since they don't require you to bring a chapter specific character or unit. If you don't play Space Marines you're waiting years between releases while waiting on GW to wrap up another release for the next chapter.

The meta stats are just an easy way to get an idea of what people are actually playing. Sure it has a competitive slant that you can take into consideration, but if no one is playing it or it's over-represented on the table that at least tells you something. No one wants to get bullied for a couple hours at a table. Maybe their favorite detachment is fun, but if it's so unbalanced that you get tabled constantly you're probably not going to run it.

Streamlined slop would be OPR that's had anything possibly interesting streamlined right out of it but hey you get to pick some war gear, whoopdeedoo.
I wont pretend that OPR is the deepest ocean, but have you actually read the rules? And I don't mean just glanced at some data sheets. Have you played the game? It's simple, yes, but you get out of it what you put in. The moment to moment gameplay, I feel, is more meaningful and intentional than 40k. It cuts out some of the dumb dice rolling like rolling to charge or move, so more of your actions are intentional. It avoids random chance grinding the game to a halt because you accidentally rolled a one and your unit basically loses its turn. The advanced rules offer a ton of options for your games, but it's left up to you to decide what kind of game you want.

Where it does fail is their missions aren't as interesting as Warhammer. You could try to convert them to work in OPR or just come up with your own scenarios. It also doesn't have any reactionary abilities like Warhammer does, though that's because it's alternating activations so it's not really needed. It's not as complex as Warhammer, for sure, but I think saying it has nothing going for it is a disservice. What would you say Warhammer has that OPR doesn't?
 
The meta stats are just an easy way to get an idea of what people are actually playing. Sure it has a competitive slant that you can take into consideration, but if no one is playing it or it's over-represented on the table that at least tells you something. No one wants to get bullied for a couple hours at a table. Maybe their favorite detachment is fun, but if it's so unbalanced that you get tabled constantly you're probably not going to run it.
And that's a sensible reply as opposed to just having a kneejerk reaction to it of "omg, meta, ew". The reality is when some faction ends up with a 70% win rate for whatever reason, that shit WILL also happen in "casual" games and the result is either everyone else getting their shit stomped regularly which isn't fun for them(and boring for a sane person), or you've got someone with the currently busted bullshit but can't play what they want because people will cry about it.

I can't think of a modern game that doesn't use data from some source or another to make sure they've at least attempted to balance shit, because we've seen what happens when they don't.

I wont pretend that OPR is the deepest ocean, but have you actually read the rules? And I don't mean just glanced at some data sheets. Have you played the game? It's simple, yes, but you get out of it what you put in. The moment to moment gameplay, I feel, is more meaningful and intentional than 40k. It cuts out some of the dumb dice rolling like rolling to charge or move, so more of your actions are intentional. It avoids random chance grinding the game to a halt because you accidentally rolled a one and your unit basically loses its turn. The advanced rules offer a ton of options for your games, but it's left up to you to decide what kind of game you want.
Nope, because I've read through it and I've got zero interest in what I've read. 40k can definitely do with some removal of dice rolls, and especially re-rolls, but no I don't want as much randomness as possible removed from the game and a failed charge roll shouldn't grind a game to a halt either(should also not be trying to rely on 9"+ charges but that's a separate issue).

Where it does fail is their missions aren't as interesting as Warhammer. You could try to convert them to work in OPR or just come up with your own scenarios. It also doesn't have any reactionary abilities like Warhammer does, though that's because it's alternating activations so it's not really needed. It's not as complex as Warhammer, for sure, but I think saying it has nothing going for it is a disservice. What would you say Warhammer has that OPR doesn't?
And that's right where it starts to fall apart. I've said as much before on the topic, I don't want to show up to a game to spend 30+ minutes sorting out which rules are being used, negotiating terrain placement, etc. If I'm showing up to a game, I want to play. As far as what 40k has that OPR doesn't? Many things. An IP with themes I find interesting, the ability to just show up and play, but more importantly it actually has a playerbase. If I'm going to consider playing OPR that I don't like after reading through it, I sure as hell don't also want to have to spend weeks begging at the game store for someone else to be willing to play it when I already don't want to. I'd have an easier time finding a game for ASOIAF than that. And no, I don't think OPR is the worst rules on the planet, far from it, it's just not interesting in the slightest compared to Conquest, Infinity, Shatterpoint, and a pile of other games I'd rather put time into long before OPR.

And that's all before being fed up with the OPR evangelism that exists online.
 
I don't want as much randomness as possible removed from the game
Then what do you want?

I've never managed to play 10th, but isn't one of the main criticisms of it that the game has been reduced to a clinical excersise that plays more like a eurogame than a wargame?

I don't want to show up to a game to spend 30+ minutes sorting out which rules are being used, negotiating terrain placement,
Then don't. Pick a scenario and go. Or it this more 10th edition tournament bullshit where every table has to be tourni size with tourni layout?
 
LOL, fucking GW and their codex writers. Seriously? This gets literally just a sidebar?
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And what even is that? Malcador didn't expect to get killed on the throne and was intending to go back to Titan one day and go "it was just a prank bro, I wrote it on a napkin from Olive Garden one day at dinner"?
Am I the only one who thought Basilio Fo's ill-defined bioweapon from TEADT was the Terminus Decree? I didn't even think it was a sly suggestion, it seemed to me like they were hammering the point home far past tasteful levels. They constantly referred to it as "Terminus Grade", and made absolutely sure it ended up in the hands of the proto-inquisition against the wishes of the Custodes.
 
Then what do you want?
Not streamlining every random aspect out of the game for one, but more importantly I was pretty clear about my thoughts on the game.
Then don't. Pick a scenario and go. Or it this more 10th edition tournament bullshit where every table has to be tourni size with tourni layout?
No, apparently you didn't read what I said(hell, I even mentioned 3 other games). Let me make this as clear as possible for you
Nope, because I've read through it and I've got zero interest in what I've read.
OPR that I don't like after reading through it
other games I'd rather put time into long before OPR.
I don't like OPR.

Do you get it yet? Even with a pack to pick scenarios from, I don't like the game and do not want to play it. Spending time playing the game will NOT make me enjoy it either, I'll just feel like I've wasted my time doing something I don't want to do. I know you can read, so don't bother with trying to evangelize the shit to me, I'm not interested in OPR nor am I going to an OPR thread and complaining about it.

I've never managed to play 10th, but isn't one of the main criticisms of it that the game has been reduced to a clinical excersise that plays more like a eurogame than a wargame?
And I don't criticize OPR other than being streamlined in ways via the rules that I don't like, because I haven't played it and don't want to. The end. Did you read the 10th edition rules and decide it's more like a eurogame than a wargame? Fine. I'm not going to argue with you on that. But did you just hear someone else's opinion and not even bother to go through the rules and just parrot it? Everything fucking wrong with Trench Crusade aside for a moment, I read through the rules and criticized it for removing randomness(in ways worse than OPR). If I read through the rules and actually liked them I'd consider at least trying the game, but I don't want to because I don't like the rules in addition to everything else about it.

Am I the only one who thought Basilio Fo's ill-defined bioweapon from TEADT was the Terminus Decree? I didn't even think it was a sly suggestion, it seemed to me like they were hammering the point home far past tasteful levels. They constantly referred to it as "Terminus Grade", and made absolutely sure it ended up in the hands of the proto-inquisition against the wishes of the Custodes.
No, you're not. It really seems like a case of a codex writer not paying attention to anything because Fo's virus makes more sense(many other things do as well) than what they wrote in the codex. But this wouldn't be the first time someone has shat up lore in a codex. Femstodes, Yarrick's death, Eldar wraithbone, etc. At this point maybe it's someone intentionally trying to sabotage the shit so GW finally gets rid of the codex system entirely? Optimistic, I know.
 

Roboute Guilliman: Lord of Ultramar by David Annandale​

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I enjoyed this, but I can see why some people would consider it boring. It's a pre hersity milk run where rob leads his men fighting orcs on some shithole while dealing with tension in the chapter. The main focus is to get into Rob's head and showcase his personality and tactics. Which I did like and they had a philosophy angle that was cool. Where the ultramarines were balancing their tactics with Theoretical and Practical schools of thought. It was neat to see Papa smurf try to preserve a dead planet's culture star trek style and regret it,
. The twist is the society nuked itself out of existence before the orcs even showed up, so Rob was wrong and his headstrong cocky legion that wanted to glass the planet was correct. Also he gets in a fight with a giant ass emperor beast orc. . in addition to seeing him cockblock his more bloodthirsty units until they learned chapter cohesion.
I actually find it appealing when Guilliman is written like a roided out armored Picard.
 
Brothers, I have the chance to get a cheap Blood Angel Combat Patrol. I have exactly 0 marines. Do I commit to BA or hold firm in my tism for Imperial Fists?
 
Because he can't trust the Custodes to kill him on account on them being eternally loyal,
Custodes are physically incapable of disobeying his orders, thats their niche. They can disagree, but they cant disobey, it takes godbeast Horus, who had made an infinite space inside the Vengeful Spirit, to puppet their bodies to make them turn against him. If he gives the order to jump into a black hole, all 10 thousand would just ask how fast
LOL, fucking GW and their codex writers. Seriously? This gets literally just a sidebar?
Not the first time they do it, the 9th ed GK codex had the 4th Brotherhood hunting down the Ynnari across the galaxy, and its also just a single paragraph.
 
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This is related to the Dark King. The Grey Knights are the anti-daemon taskforce. The greatest threat they can handle is the Emperor ascending to his role as the Dark King, the Chaos God of Ruin.
I like the idea of a God of Order instead.

Custodes are physically incapable of disobeying his orders, thats their niche. They can disagree, but they cant disobey, it takes godbeast Horus, who had made an infinite space inside the Vengeful Spirit, to puppet their bodies to make them turn against him. If he gives the order to jump into a black hole, all 10 thousand would just ask how fast
Besides the issue of them needing to kill the person they are sworn to protect, isn't the Decree made by Malcador? And what if revived Emps command them to stop?
 
Good morning, have you heard the good word of the Four Armed Emperor?
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Besides the issue of them needing to kill the person they are sworn to protect, isn't the Decree made by Malcador? And what if revived Emps command them to stop?
That used to be the case, now it's apparently written by the emperor himself even though he didn't have anything to do with the grey knights.
 
this would seem like a retarded question(it is) but now with the new uk laws, would that affect Warhammer in some sort of way?
 
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