Warhammer 40k

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Urbanmech said:
So what makes a setting Grimdark then?
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On a narrative/thematic level you get Grimdark and then you get Hopepunk. In Grimdark things are well... grim and dark and there's no hope of it getting better, where Hopepunk might be as grim as Grimdark but there is a sense of hope and optimism, that eventually if you keep on fighting, and if you can overcome the obstacles things can get better. I guess then by this measure the difference is pessimism vs optimism.

40k use to be pretty pessimistic, all victories were temporary and would come a great cost usually in terms of human life or human liberty. No matter how hard anyone tried the Imperium of man was forever at the brink of destruction, a bloated, uncaring, bureaucracy which was eating away at what it meant to be human (mass human sacrifice, treating people as disposable resources, mechanically and genetically altering humans etc.) but at the same time was the only thing protecting humanity. A grim status quo that was the production of countless necessary evil.
It kinda changed when Guilliman showed up... but also kinda not...
 
I (Don't) Have A Gun said:
On a narrative/thematic level you get Grimdark and then you get Hopepunk. In Grimdark things are well... grim and dark and there's no hope of it getting better, where Hopepunk might be as grim as Grimdark but there is a sense of hope and optimism, that eventually if you keep on fighting, and if you can overcome the obstacles things can get better. I guess then by this measure the difference is pessimism vs optimism.

40k use to be pretty pessimistic, all victories were temporary and would come a great cost usually in terms of human life or human liberty. No matter how hard anyone tried the Imperium of man was forever at the brink of destruction, a bloated, uncaring, bureaucracy which was eating away at what it meant to be human (mass human sacrifice, treating people as disposable resources, mechanically and genetically altering humans etc.) but at the same time was the only thing protecting humanity. A grim status quo that was the production of countless necessary evil.
It kinda changed when Guilliman showed up... but also kinda not...
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While it's apparent that 40k is lighter than it has been before, I think it's worthwhile to consider how the else its genre has changed over time that might explain this shift in perception. For decades, 40k centered its focus on the clashing of armies in an endless war that seemed to be locked into a galactic status quo. Then the Horus Heresy novel series came along and became very popular as people craved learning as much as possible about the legendary Primarchs. With that success, I believe GW decided to shift emphasis from grinding armies to epic narratives with big heroes and villains, marked especially by the return of Primarchs to the 40k era and actual plot advancement with the turn from 7th to 8th Edition. While named Special Characters (as they were called back then) were always a thing in the tabletop game before, I don't remember them having nearly as much abundance and emphasis as named character models do now, and there's also now plenty of non-FW giant centerpiece models besides such as Imperial Knights. There also now always seem to be some sort of narrative campaign going on to tell the story of some conflict, the current one being Octarius. And then there's the new Dawn of Fire novel series about the Indomitus Crusade, which GW has stated their intention to have it be on the same scale as the Horus Heresy novel series, but in the 40k era.

But this is not to say that there's no more grimdark in modern 40k. Though John Blanche is one of a kind, I think some recent artwork is just as deliciously grimdark as what we remembered way back in 3rd Edition.
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iceteayo said:
The price for the Gravis Space Marine is insane. I do not know who is pricing this GW or Bandai because outside of Gunpla prices Bandai does get kinda jewish.
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People don't seem to understand that made to order things are innately more expensive. The intercessiors are 100 each.
 
Love_Machine011 said:
People don't seem to understand that made to order things are innately more expensive. The intercessiors are 100 each.
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I should have clarified its like super expensive for Australians. $240 USD does sound kinda normal for a bandai figure with that much plastic.
 
Just found out that there's a third place to play Warhammer games in my city. Small shop compared to my old go to, but more options are always nice.

iceteayo said:
I think he means people tend to overstate the grimdark of 40k and I agree with him.
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I mean that for any game people claim to be grimdark.

I could think of four eras of Star Wars that would be considered grimdark given the same definition people use for Warhammer.

I (Don't) Have A Gun said:
On a narrative/thematic level you get Grimdark and then you get Hopepunk. In Grimdark things are well... grim and dark and there's no hope of it getting better, where Hopepunk might be as grim as Grimdark but there is a sense of hope and optimism, that eventually if you keep on fighting, and if you can overcome the obstacles things can get better. I guess then by this measure the difference is pessimism vs optimism.

40k use to be pretty pessimistic, all victories were temporary and would come a great cost usually in terms of human life or human liberty. No matter how hard anyone tried the Imperium of man was forever at the brink of destruction, a bloated, uncaring, bureaucracy which was eating away at what it meant to be human (mass human sacrifice, treating people as disposable resources, mechanically and genetically altering humans etc.) but at the same time was the only thing protecting humanity. A grim status quo that was the production of countless necessary evil.
It kinda changed when Guilliman showed up... but also kinda not...
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There's also the "realism" factor to add to the dystopian side, but that's really just for the books and RPG's. You can get that with some dystopian rogue/ rogue-likes. In CoC games you as a player know your character is going to die, they will not survive to see old age or long enough to become an NPC. In game, when your player has seen enough weird shit they start to realize that they and the world is fucked. It becomes them against the world and they may just have the back up they need to survive just one more day before some begotten horror takes them. Is CoC grimdark? No. Even when the game takes places in either WW1 or WW2 times where people were just trying to get by and eating bread & butter pickle sandwiches every day because there was nothing else they could afford.
 
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Crusader squads confirmed, with new flamers for them to burn those FUCKING DEVIANTS to cinders.
 
Alter Ego said:
While it's apparent that 40k is lighter than it has been before, I think it's worthwhile to consider how the else its genre has changed over time that might explain this shift in perception. For decades, 40k centered its focus on the clashing of armies in an endless war that seemed to be locked into a galactic status quo. Then the Horus Heresy novel series came along and became very popular as people craved learning as much as possible about the legendary Primarchs. With that success, I believe GW decided to shift emphasis from grinding armies to epic narratives with big heroes and villains, marked especially by the return of Primarchs to the 40k era and actual plot advancement with the turn from 7th to 8th Edition. While named Special Characters (as they were called back then) were always a thing in the tabletop game before, I don't remember them having nearly as much abundance and emphasis as named character models do now, and there's also now plenty of non-FW giant centerpiece models besides such as Imperial Knights. There also now always seem to be some sort of narrative campaign going on to tell the story of some conflict, the current one being Octarius. And then there's the new Dawn of Fire novel series about the Indomitus Crusade, which GW has stated their intention to have it be on the same scale as the Horus Heresy novel series, but in the 40k era.

But this is not to say that there's no more grimdark in modern 40k. Though John Blanche is one of a kind, I think some recent artwork is just as deliciously grimdark as what we remembered way back in 3rd Edition.
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Even with old lore books 40k can be hopeful since you have heroes with morals and endtimes prophecies about massive battles that will repair the shattered imperium (Ventris, Ragnar).
The grimdarkness can work in the context of a wargame. But anything with characters needs to have some optimism, otherwise there is no point.
 
Love_Machine011 said:
Considering their chapter tactic, don't expect too much for phobos. Also don't you play raptors?
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I jest but cool for the Black Templars to get some new love. Working on Custodes now and wanna do new Orks after. If I were to ever do Space Marines again I am split between Blood Ravens, Red Talons, or Dark Krakens. I might just do Red Talons though I like the thought of heavy mechanized marines with heavy melee.
 
Huh, seems there's a huge spaz out happening in the printedWH discord. I haven't looked there in weeks, but I guess some youtuber called out the mega and GW got it shut down. In the meantime they're setting up a new one, but locking access to it away from new members, which there seems to be a ton of. The random chat there is just about illegible with how fast it's scrolling by.

Could have the order of events wrong, but idc. Spaz out is a spaz out.
 
Just Some Other Guy said:
Huh, seems there's a huge spaz out happening in the printedWH discord. I haven't looked there in weeks, but I guess some youtuber called out the mega and GW got it shut down. In the meantime they're setting up a new one, but locking access to it away from new members, which there seems to be a ton of. The random chat there is just about illegible with how fast it's scrolling by.

Could have the order of events wrong, but idc. Spaz out is a spaz out.
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Why does this always happen normies keep spouting about a useful thing we all should use to stick it to GW, GW sees it, and now makes it require various secret handshakes, fucking tests, and even essays on wanting to use something like a recast subreddit.

Oh yeah so recently I got lucky on getting the remaining stuff for my Raptors. The Hammerstrike Stormspeeder and 2 ATVs the guy I bought from also gave me the special Terminator chaplain from last year too. Anyway the speeder was smaller than I initially thought the the flight stand it comes with almost makes it flier tier with how unusual tall it is. Am I also the only one who learned to actually like the ATV? Or this might be the primaris paypigging going to my head.
 
And of course the new Fists praetors would have to drop right when I've got a dozen other expenses gnawing at my bank account. Dammit.
 
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