Were incels avoidable?

[Gender: Xenomorph]

Incels - as in the more traditional definition - are hung up on validation and insist that the women they desire choose them. From how I understood it it isn't really the lack of sex they're oy veying about - which theoretically you could fix with a hooker (or even a sex doll if you're into that sort of thing...), but the lack of companionship. If I'm not mistaken they used to be called "Forever Alone" not too long ago, which I believe makes more sense.

Nah forever alone meant no friends or social interaction. Nothing to do with sex or gfs.

 

[LinkinParkxNaruto[AMV]]

It really just depends if you consider incelism as straightforward "involuntary celibate" or as a whole ideology that spawned from that term.

In an older generation they would just be people like Henry Dagger that no one really thought off and lived and died alone with their closeted loli fetish fanfictions. No one was even aware enough to give them a name but every extended family had a uncle or aunt who just was a little off and never married.

I think the phenomenom now is literal kids who really aren't even in a normal age to be complaining about their sex lives and are being gaslighted into incelism as a mindset. There really are 13 year olds posting on those communities, even teens admitting as much on places like wizardchan. This is a purely internet made social contagion, is unavoidable because there is no compartmentalization on the internet on what reaches kids and what doesn't.

 

[JackoVerde]

I think the phenomenom now is literal kids who really aren't even in a normal age to be complaining about their sex lives and are being gaslighted into incelism as a mindset. There really are 13 year olds posting on those communities, even teens admitting as much on places like wizardchan. This is a purely internet made social contagion, is unavoidable because there is no compartmentalization on the internet on what reaches kids and what doesn't.

dont incels proclaim the like 25% of young men are incels, at first i thought that couldnt possibly be true, but with this weird social media gaslighting of young men. there could be at least a lot of self proclaimed young incels and this could be a growing problem

do i think its anywhere near 25% of young men, no way in hell thats too many. now could it be something like 5% of younge men, maybe. now if you include, MGTOW and Redpilled and shit, that number could climb up to 15% or more. since those 2 others are more palatable to the average person.

 

[LinkinParkxNaruto[AMV]]

dont incels proclaim the like 25% of young men are incels, at first i thought that couldnt possibly be true, but with this weird social media gaslighting of young men. there could be at least a lot of self proclaimed young incels and this could be a growing problem

do i think its anywhere near 25% of young men, no way in hell thats too many. now could it be something like 5% of younge men, maybe. now if you include, MGTOW and Redpilled and shit, that number could climb up to 15% or more. since those 2 others are more palatable to the average person.

Theres a lot of 14 year olds calling themselves incels, thats for sure.

Kids are getting this idea that if their middle school experience is not Animal House something is wrong, they are subhuman, society is unfair to them and life is over, forever. Of course if you are a developing with this mindset from browsing incel boards from a young age its only going to become a self fulfilled prophecy and doubtful you'll move on , mature at a normal pace and make things better for yourself

 

[AnOminous]

You can legalise it as it has been in some places, but the stigma won't go away.

Also say what you like about incels, a lot of them outright refuse to have sex with a prostitute. While incels are often accused of being excessively choosy (often with merit), refusing to be a whoremonger is actually a good trait.

 

[JackoVerde]

Also say what you like about incels, a lot of them outright refuse to have sex with a prostitute. While incels are often accused of being excessively choosy (often with merit), refusing to be a whoremonger is actually a good trait.

maybe they should save their money and have sex with a high class call girl in a hotel, or 10/10 instagram thot.
do they think the model level women they want are for free?
that they are entitled to them or something

 

[LinkinParkxNaruto[AMV]]

Also say what you like about incels, a lot of them outright refuse to have sex with a prostitute. While incels are often accused of being excessively choosy (often with merit), refusing to be a whoremonger is actually a good trait.

They say they don't want whores because whores rode the cock carousel and only a 12 yr old virgin loli would suit them. A whoremonger is better really.

 

[Gender: Xenomorph]

From what I see incels don't know how to approach women because the closest thing they have to a father figure is pickup artists, Hollywood shows or grifters like Andrew Tate. They follow their advice and fail over and over again, and then they get reassured it's the women's fault for being empty and shallow whores.

 

[Arianne Chan]

No, there has always been a large number of people who for one reason or another cannot have love, like mental disorders, shyness, inexperience, ugliness, etc

Even if there were some method of treating it, there would still be people who would not work for this treatment.

Just look at CWC, he was an incel even before the term itself was coined

 

[PaleTay]

dont incels proclaim the like 25% of young men are incels, at first i thought that couldnt possibly be true, but with this weird social media gaslighting of young men. there could be at least a lot of self proclaimed young incels and this could be a growing problem

do i think its anywhere near 25% of young men, no way in hell thats too many. now could it be something like 5% of younge men, maybe. now if you include, MGTOW and Redpilled and shit, that number could climb up to 15% or more. since those 2 others are more palatable to the average person.

I do think suburbia and traffic congestion might make the 25% seem reasonable. Not in the sense that you're thinking, but in the sense that human connection is deeply lacking, especially with young people working more to pay for mass immigration, lockdowns, and forever wars.

A lot of life is work, gym, commute, sleep.

 

[AnOminous]

I do think suburbia and traffic congestion might make the 25% seem reasonable. Not in the sense that you're thinking, but in the sense that human connection is deeply lacking, especially with young people working more to pay for mass immigration, lockdowns, and forever wars.

Also a lot of the previous means of socialization have been deemed "problematic" so people grow up gigantic man/womanbabies completely incapable of living in a society.

 

[WolfeTone]

imo, it all boils down to who you blame for your problems. Every proud incel I've ever seen takes to blaming everything before himself, even if he does get to self-deprecating at the end of the day, he still hates the outside world so very much more. He still thinks that he should be entitled, not earn, entitled to the fruit of harvests who's seeds he had no part in planting, that is the underlying issue here. Incel mindset expects the world to be handed to it or it's a nihilistic wasteland full of darkness and judgement, which it is, but that's only a small part of the big picture, not something to focus your entire life around. Going back to who do you blame, do you lambast the world for not giving you a higher position, or do you first count your blessings and recognize all that you're above right now, grab on to your tools, and get to work sewing the field for YOUR harvest?

 

[William Tyndale]

I think incel culture has been amplified by the anti-social behavior that has resulted from internet and phone addiction. Girls are able to get attention from hundreds of guys at the click of a mouse instead of the few guys who are standing in front of her in person. It also allows guys to chase dozens of girl at the same time with no real emotional connection created, while also allowing the girl to dodge the guy via text or private message by simply ghosting them. We also have a generation of men getting their dopamine rush by playing call of duty for 8 hours a day. It’s all a perfect storm that has created a generation of girls who value themselves by the amount of likes they get on social media, and a generation of guys who would rather literally twiddle their thumbs (vidya) than go out and be social.

 

[PaleTay]

Also a lot of the previous means of socialization have been deemed "problematic" so people grow up gigantic man/womanbabies completely incapable of living in a society.

I've found it really depends on the area, most of those people tend to congregate in certain parts of cities and it becomes a generational cycle.

I think incel culture has been amplified by the anti-social behavior that has resulted from internet and phone addiction. Girls are able to get attention from hundreds of guys at the click of a mouse instead of the few guys who are standing in front of her in person. It also allows guys to chase dozens of girl at the same time with no real emotional connection created, while also allowing the girl to dodge the guy via text or private message by simply ghosting them. We also have a generation of men getting their dopamine rush by playing call of duty for 8 hours a day. It’s all a perfect storm that has created a generation of girls who value themselves by the amount of likes they get on social media, and a generation of guys who would rather literally twiddle their thumbs (vidya) than go out and be social.

I think that's mostly time and energy, it's easier in real life because you have focus. I think that's a problem created by long commutes and long work hours mostly. I know a lot of girls with 10k+ followers, they're mostly lonely but some of the influencers have an ego. I try not to fault someone working two jobs for missing a text and apologizing sometimes when we do stuff in real life.

 

[xXx: State of the Union]

Probably not.

Incels biggest problems tend to be an avoidance of social situations and a sense of entitlement, from what I've seen. If they actually went and did things and tried to meet people, they'd probably meet someone willing to fuck them. Instead they stick to apps and online shit that lacks so much personality that everything relies on looks.

Then there are the ones that feel entitled to some perfect woman or have strict/niche criteria.

Basically to avoid it you would have had to have society completely go a different direction in like...the early 90s? Probably even earlier tbqh

 

[anustart76]

I think incel culture has been amplified by the anti-social behavior that has resulted from internet and phone addiction. Girls are able to get attention from hundreds of guys at the click of a mouse instead of the few guys who are standing in front of her in person. It also allows guys to chase dozens of girl at the same time with no real emotional connection created, while also allowing the girl to dodge the guy via text or private message by simply ghosting them. We also have a generation of men getting their dopamine rush by playing call of duty for 8 hours a day. It’s all a perfect storm that has created a generation of girls who value themselves by the amount of likes they get on social media, and a generation of guys who would rather literally twiddle their thumbs (vidya) than go out and be social.

Probably not.

Incels biggest problems tend to be an avoidance of social situations and a sense of entitlement, from what I've seen. If they actually went and did things and tried to meet people, they'd probably meet someone willing to fuck them. Instead they stick to apps and online shit that lacks so much personality that everything relies on looks.

Then there are the ones that feel entitled to some perfect woman or have strict/niche criteria.

Basically to avoid it you would have had to have society completely go a different direction in like...the early 90s? Probably even earlier tbqh

I think it goes deeper than that; I don't think they know how to go out and be social or meet people. There aren't a lot of avenues for it these days once you're out of school, and even if they do manage to go out, they're so lost they don't see any value in it because they have no idea how to take advantage of it.

 

[$80 Nude Haircut]

>"just go out and meet people bro"
>"but also let me explain how men & women now are all socially-malformed retards who have been trained wrong by the internet"
Half of you sound like pic related with some of this "advice":

 

[Unyielding Stupidity]

Incels were an avoidable problem, and are a fixable problem; but no society with such a problem would want to fix it. Because fixing it would require changes from both the incels and the rest of society, and a considerable chunk of the rest of society actively benefits from the issues that created the incel dilemma.
Specifically, the sexual revolution combined with the vastly increased dating pools enabled by dating apps and social media has obliterated the modern dating scene, for many reasons. Here's just a few of them:

• Sex has gone from an act reserved for committed, long term relationships to something that happens frequently on the first date. Which incentivizes less honest "Chads" into getting this first-date sex (often by pressuring the woman into it by implying that it's normal, and that she's a prude and he won't date her if she doesn't), and then immediately ghosting said woman and jumping to the next woman (which thanks to the widened dating pool is super easy). Once this happens a few times, the woman becomes jaded and bitter, and drops out of the dating scene entirely.
• The widened dating pools means that you now have a lot more competition when trying to find a partner. When you're competing with the most attractive men in a several mile radius, it's hard to compete unless you're at their level, which most people aren't. Especially when those men are the sort who, as mentioned above, have no intention of long term relationships, who will date well below their own level for some quick once-and-done sex. It's like comparing competing at a countywide sports tournament to competing at a nationwide one.
• Dating apps prioritize appearances over everything else. When was the last time you (man or woman alike) ever read a person's description on one of those apps? Most people go purely off the first few pictures to decide whether it's a yes or a no. It's just more noticeable with women since there's a lot more men that'll say yes to basically anyone with a pulse. This is great for people who look good but are noxious people otherwise, but terrible for people who are fantastic in everything BUT looks.
• Social media blasts extremely attractive people in your face whenever you use it, and young people use it a lot. When the people you and others are compared to are the top percentages of people, naturally you're going to look bad in comparison.
• More and more relationships are starting via the internet. Current statistics suggest around 40% of relationships start on the internet (not specifically dating apps, mind you, but most other places on the internet have similar issues to the ones mentioned above). As previously mentioned, dating in this way sucks if you aren't gifted in the looks department.

Incels are just a weird side-effect caused by this situation. Contrary to popular belief, not all "involuntary celibates" are violent rampaging misogynists (thought those that choose to wear the 'incel' label with pride probably are), and a good chunk of them aren't even ugly.

A good chunk of them are just very lonely men with body dysmorphia (and often other mental illnesses as well), who've internalized the idea that if they don't meet the stereotype of the 'perfect man', they're doomed to remain single for the rest of their days. It's the same mental issue that drives women to starve themselves because they constantly see themselves as 'too fat', or men to spend every waking minute in the gym and taking steroids because they're 'not strong enough'. Only it's arguably worse because many of the things they see as the issues causing this (height, skeletal structure, penis size, hair loss, certain medical conditions, etc) are things that either cannot be changed, or can only be changed with prohibitively expensive surgery. Naturally when people feel that they're doomed to a life of loneliness due to factors out of their control, they're going to grow anxious, depressed, and oftentimes resentful to society as a whole.
Just like how girls and women were developing body dysmorphia (and eating disorders) from the skinny, heavily airbrushed models in magazines back in the 2000's, boys and men are developing body dysmorphia from social media and the 10/10 men that are plastered all over it. However, unlike what happened with women, where these magazines were called out and frowned upon for the mental illnesses they were arguably causing (over in the UK at least, we had a ton of documentaries on this subject), there's no real pushback from society in this modern male case; the masses are perfectly fine with this state of affairs.

If we treated the women that suffered from body dysmorphia back then the same way we treat the men suffering from it today, the health issues caused by it would be so much worse. Imagine if making fun of the weight of women dealing with anorexia was seen as perfectly acceptable, and the women that called out this behaviour were mocked themselves. That'd make their mental health a lot worse, correct? As that's basically what we do with unattractive men right now. Laughing at dudes for being under 6 foot or having weak chins/jaws and saying they'll die alone because of it is seen as the absolute peak of comedy by many people, which is probably why these features that commonly get mocked are such sticking points with men suffering from body dysmorphia.
Like it or not, unattractive men are a socially-acceptable punching bag. You can mock them for their appearance, and unlike mocking that of a woman (where you'd be called a vile, misogynistic incel for doing so), you can get away with it. Hell, you'll occasionally be cheered on for doing it. Even when you're not the direct target of this mockery, seeing someone else get mocked for a feature you yourself have will likely make you feel like shit as well. It doesn't matter how many people tell you that those things "don't matter", seeing the mockery of those things be so widespread paints a much stronger picture. And even then, many of those that claim they don't matter will jump on the opportunity to make fun of those same things when it's trendy to do so.

The masses claim that your appearances "don't matter" while mocking them indirectly or directly, bluepillers tell you the same while also saying that it's actually YOUR fault that you're like this, redpill grifters claim that you just need to "self-improve bro" and develop a different type of body dysmorphia to solve your issues (just lift bro); no group actually points out the elephant in the room of male mental health issues, as pointing it out would make them look bad. However, there is one group that actually points out this issue in society with how men are treated; incels. The issue is they sandwich their ideas with a load of absolute batshit insanity, but when they're the only group talking about your issue, the only group that seemingly supports you, many people will take what they can get.
To point at a similar example, it's not that different from the Hindus and Sikhs who supported the EDL (a group that they'd otherwise completely disagree with) purely because they were the only group talking about the grooming gangs rife in North England back during the 90s and 2000s.


Unfortunately, there is no law that can be passed to truly 'fix' it, the only way it could be fixed is a change in society as a whole, a change in how men are treated both by women and by other men. But such a change won't happen, the ones who aren't negatively impacted by it either don't care, or actively enjoy having a socially acceptable punching bag to take their own insecurities out on. C'est la vie.

TL;DR:

 

[cybertoaster]

Literally no one irl outside of retarded fundies, and tradfags gives a shit if you're a virgin.

Bro where the fuck did you live? if we knew a guy was a virgin in senior year HS the entire school wouldnt stop making fun of him, and fundies will start doubting about your "compromise to marriage and chastity" if you're reaching your late 20's and still don't have a steady gf. They will likely think you're a closeted homo, tho now that's way better than being thought of an incel.

There'd be no social shaming for dating below your status

Yeah there was, and dating below your class was a major faux pass too.

I really think we're reaching a point where being a good or interesting person makes you a social outcast in many situations.

Agree, that's because people think you're either a sort of conman trying to pull a trick on them or you're a simpleton since we are approaching zero-trust as a society.

I been to some third world countries and all the societies there were zero-trust, everybody assumed other people were out to harm/rob them so communities were atomized af. I was told only in very small towns did any sort of trust still remain but they were very wary of outsiders and dirt poor.

Let me rephrase it then: Men that never got to reproduce (or literally die as virgins) existed since time immemorial and always will. Hope that clears things up.

Not only that but countries like france had to ban paternity tests because a ridiculously high number of men were raising other men's kids, and the french state didn't want to foot the bill of child support.

dont incels proclaim the like 25% of young men are incels

There's a study that says one third of all men aged 18-27 are virgins or didn't get sex in the last 3 years.

 

[gigatard]

Incels as in men who hate women because they can't get laid have always existed, even when young men died in higher numbers than today.

Incels as a community only exist because of social media and porn addiction. The modern "incel" is your typical bog-standard sexually frustrated misogynist who have always existed, except now that man gets hopelessly lost in the ever-intensifying cycle of dopamine stimulation that is the modern internet. Jerk off to porn, cry because it'll never be real life, commiserate with other incels about it, jerk off to feel better, rinse lather repeat. Plus, the interaction with fellow incels they have on their little forums is probably the most meaningful socializing they ever partake it--they have literally no reason to give any of that up.

Anyway, incels are funny as hell to watch and I agree with the poster who said he hopes they never go away. Every post on their forums reads like those r/atheism copypastas from 2011, except instead of everyone clapping it's Stacy screaming and running away after OP calls her a slut. Although to be fair, pretty women running away from ugly autistic losers is a lot more likely to have actually happened than everyone at the bookstore clapping for someone who gets caught moving Bibles to the Fiction section.