Western Animation - Discuss American, Canadian, and European cartoons here (or just bitch about wokeshit, I guess)

[Commander X]

Take The Owl House—TV Tropes, Reddit, and Twitter stan it hard, but it’s a poor man’s Little Witch Academia with less charm and way more pandering. Sure, it’s got some magic and adventures that might catch a kid’s eye, but then it piles on sappy romance and preachy politics that only left-leaning adults are cheering for. Kids don’t care about that—they want fun, not lectures. These networks have been neglecting the under-14 crowd for years, and it shows.

The "Animation! Is! Cinema!" crowd love this sludge so long as it's in shows ostensibly made for children. If anyone is wondering why we rarely see anything remotely resembling ground breaking boundary pushing animation/storytelling for adults you can thank in part these thirty-something toddlers who can’t comprehend adult topics and concepts that aren't tackled from within “realistic panic attack animation is cinema” hugboxes, especially the ones who are in The Industry.

“Animation is Cinema” is a statement hijacked by people who want you to discuss Bluey like it’s The Godfather. These people will swear “animation isn’t just for kids” then talk about getting excited for the latest Paw Patrol-level show or Beanmouth Academy or current year CG baby-slop movies in the same sentence.

“The animators didn’t have to go this hard” (while mooning over clips where everything has no weight and everything moves at an even, robotic pace thanks to being outsourced to Korean sweatshops) “animation is cinema” - people who say garbage like this about shows like The Owl House are basically pigs happily hooked up to the perpetual gruel machine.

 

[FK009]

Now a more clearer and cringer version (complete with the president wearing a cowboy hat to further add the on-the-nose subtly).

Spoiler: Abandon Hope

Netflix DMC.mp4

There needs to be an edit of this that plays America Fuck Yeah as the background music.

Also, the people working on this fucked up, cause I love the image of America bombing the shit out of Hell and demons to the tune of American Idiot. I blame my sibling for being a greenday fan while we were growing up.

 

[Waifuchu]

I'm not religious and never have been, but "demons = made of evil" has never really been a concept in fiction I struggled with. I can kinda get a towering paragon of safe-edgy like Vivziepop being "subversive" and making all the legions of hell really just a bunch of quirky gay neurotics, but at least her mediocre shows occupy that comedy-genre-zone of everyone being some flavor of unlikeable asshole.

Is Hell = Iraq (but in a positive way!) actually compelling to anyone outside of these weird contrarian reddit spheres?

 

[Edgeymcedgename]

I'm not religious and never have been, but "demons = made of evil" has never really been a concept in fiction I struggled with. I can kinda get a towering paragon of safe-edgy like Vivziepop being "subversive" and making all the legions of hell really just a bunch of quirky gay neurotics, but at least her mediocre shows occupy that comedy-genre-zone of everyone being some flavor of unlikeable asshole.

Is Hell = Iraq (but in a positive way!) actually compelling to anyone outside of these weird contrarian reddit spheres?

It's a sad attempt at moral relativism.

 

[Snake of Diamond]

The "Animation! Is! Cinema!" crowd love this sludge so long as it's in shows ostensibly made for children. If anyone is wondering why we rarely see anything remotely resembling ground breaking boundary pushing animation/storytelling for adults you can thank in part these thirty-something toddlers who can’t comprehend adult topics and concepts that aren't tackled from within “realistic panic attack animation is cinema” hugboxes, especially the ones who are in The Industry.

“Animation is Cinema” is a statement hijacked by people who want you to discuss Bluey like it’s The Godfather. These people will swear “animation isn’t just for kids” then talk about getting excited for the latest Paw Patrol-level show or Beanmouth Academy or current year CG baby-slop movies in the same sentence.

“The animators didn’t have to go this hard” (while mooning over clips where everything has no weight and everything moves at an even, robotic pace thanks to being outsourced to Korean sweatshops) “animation is cinema” - people who say garbage like this about shows like The Owl House are basically pigs happily hooked up to the perpetual gruel machine.

This feels like it can parallel with the "games are art" people to be honest since I've seen the same arguments. I feel my issue as you pointed out is more with the lack of nuance. It tends to be people overrating simple cartoons and baby media as some philosophical piece for the soul and not just a funny cartoon or some edutainment thing. Just like with certain games can be art the medium as a whole is full of things people would be quick to write off as nothing more than generic entertainment all the while banging the drums about how sophisticated they are because they watch the flavor of the month cartoon twitter is yelling about.

I've only ever seen 'Games are Art' used in defence of shit games with shit or no mechanics and basic bitch story that could have easily been told in any other medium. Never about games that actually cleverly wolve their mechanics and design into the story they're telling, just "They made you press the forward button to progress the story, that immerses you in this story more than a short youtube video ever could!"

Art snob types where you see them only bring this up for games that are mostly listening to peolpe whine about their problems. I should add that you sort of see a shift in this as years went on and mainstream gaming dumbed down a bit more. The talk of games being art was more seen in indie scenes where it REALLY gets extremely obnoxious because those same people now come out to dunk on those that use this same thing for mainstream games and have their own criteria that because that said game is popular it's questionable if it is "real" art and this whole thing is just a mess.

 

[TheAmbiguousLurker]

This feels like it can parallel with the "games are art" people to be honest since I've seen the same arguments. I feel my issue as you pointed out is more with the lack of nuance. It tends to be people overrating simple cartoons and baby media as some philosophical piece for the soul and not just a funny cartoon or some edutainment thing. Just like with certain games can be art the medium as a whole is full of things people would be quick to write off as nothing more than generic entertainment all the while banging the drums about how sophisticated they are because they watch the flavor of the month cartoon twitter is yelling about.

I've only ever seen 'Games are Art' used in defence of shit games with shit or no mechanics and basic bitch story that could have easily been told in any other medium. Never about games that actually cleverly wolve their mechanics and design into the story they're telling, just "They made you press the forward button to progress the story, that immerses you in this story more than a short youtube video ever could!"

 

[Autistic Gunspergings]

I have never seen anyone who obsesses over "x as art" not be a pretentious hack with shit taste. I'm pretty sure it is a given that animation, or games, or any other entertainment medium can be classified as "art" for any person who isn't out of touch, but these people always yell this the most when you start pointing out the flaws in a given story. TLOU2 is a good example of this off the top of my head.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

With the whole saying things are "Art" argument usually its in response to out of touch old snobs who degrade mediums they have no real understanding of

As for that DMC show again and its honestly one of the worst tropes in fiction but for the love of god stop portraying races originally created to be evil as misunderstood minorities. While there are examples even in DMC of demons who are sympathetic, its emphasized that they have a human side to them that they aren't a devil.

Portraying a sympathetic angle species wide is just really dumb. Since its actually pretty insulting to the minority you're making an allegory for to compare them to like fucking orcs, demons, goblins, or what have you alongside giving people you want to condemn brand new racial slurs so if the DMC show causes people to call Arabs "Demons" that is on Adi Shankir. Second, making an evil race into an analogue for minorities don't work because it gives a clearly rational reason for why people would discriminate against them based on facts about the species, especially with how demons are monsters from Hell that are known to deceive and commit forms of evil. Third, as I said before, why not portray the demons or evil race as the evil nation you want to condemn, like wouldn't it have hit stronger to have the Demons be the one to invade the human world and take its resources.

But then again these ideas are born out of a lazy way to make a moral gray story whereas moral grayness can come from nuanced writing, exploring other perspectives, but people take the easy way out by making monsters into allegories for minorities as the cheap way to make you feel bad or going full on with the "humans are the real monsters" trope which is a dead horse since almost everyone and their mom has done that type of story beat, like it's one of the most common tropes in the zombie genre of horror.

"Humans are the real monsters" is a trope that is only deep if you're in your early teens since everyone can know the cruelty of their fellow man, like social media can let people see the horrors done by other humans.

 

[Yeshuash]

Of course, gotta retcon the Umbrella corporation as the good guys. The T-virus came from a Chinese wet market, and Umbrella made a vaccine, but President Graham (who looks and acts like Trump now) spread anti-vax disinformation which caused the zombie outbreak!

Oh God! Resident Evil being used to push a fuck anti vaxers message is way to believable at this point.

 

[Bloodrage]

Name your Cartoon waifu (No anime, even if I want to post about Nami)
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Late but damn, do I wish I was a conquistador
Edit: Oh hell, I forgot the OG goth gf

 

[Kari Kamiya]

I saw a comment that kinda fits with the whole non stop swearing, its on a DMC reboot review, and while the guy does say the gameplay is fun, while talking on the problems he talks:

"See, he loses the chances of being trully stylish like regular Dante when he open his mouth. See this scene, the bouncer asked for his ticket, so he punches him, thats all cool, but them he takes his papers and write, ok, did he put his name? No, its a "fuck you" for when the writer wants to show "look mom I'm grow up I can say fuck"

Its the same thing, but now theres no gameplay to at least try compensate for it.

Crossposting from the DMC cartoon thread, think in general this explains everything about modern "adult" animation right now. After saying "fuck" every few words throughout high school, they think they're mature enough now to use it for a punchline.

 

[Chromeo]

Name your Cartoon waifu (No anime, even if I want to post about Nami)
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I've got broad taste in broads

 

[AnsemSoD1]

NAMI SWAN AND ROBIN CHAN ARE LOVE AND LIFE

 

[Patrick Bait-man]

I've got broad taste in broads

"Velma is NOT a lesbian! It's not true! It's bullshit! She is NOT!"

 

[iceteayo]

I wanted to ask, usually /co/ is just full of shitposting but is Bruce Timms DCAU basically a near perfect super hero cartoon universe? Barring two plot decisions of

Spoiler: DCAU

Barbra Gordan and Bruce Waynes relationship and Batman Beyonds ending being "Terry is actually Bruce Waynes son"

almost every episode is worth watching

 

[AnOminous]

"Velma is NOT a lesbian! It's not true! It's bullshit! She is NOT!"

Even if she is, I could cure her.

 

[Get the rope Macaulay!]

he more important question is ''are they going to make their money back?'' and the answer is no

quick reminder that the current LT film in theaters is also a massive flop, literally didn't make its money back and this will bankrupt the distribution company. a24 took a decade before greenlighting films that cost $50 million, ketchup has been bleeding money for a super long time and this will be what does them in.

Yeah, there is definitely a precedent for specifically 2D animation having a hard time wowing people in a way where 3D doesn't struggle.
The Powerpuff Girls movie for example bombed and that was still long before the brand got hit with terrible reboots.

thats a great point, i didn't realize how badly it flopped too and that was at its height of brand awareness.

Like look at Tiny Toons, Looniversity took these characters kids don’t remember in any way, who inexplicably look the exact same as their elementary school selves, and shoved them into college life because it’s what the writers can write about. They even made the two leads siblings because of course they couldn’t write about college love in a kids’ cartoon… yet the issue’s more they were even making a kid’s cartoon about college life to begin with. All the action is just pulled from shit they watched as a kid and all the romance is stuff they either went through or wished they went through.

this is the first time i'm hearing about the sequel/reboot, and everything you said makes it sound awful. the original tiny toons also had them at "looniversity where we earn our toon degree" and they just didn't give a shit about it making sense and made it and elementary school operate on the same logic, no college i know of has detention.

you had episodes about young love and other stuff but it mainly focused on the funny, i doubt this one does.

 

[Newcomer 42]

this is the first time i'm hearing about the sequel/reboot, and everything you said makes it sound awful. the original tiny toons also had them at "looniversity where we earn our toon degree" and they just didn't give a shit about it making sense and made it and elementary school operate on the same logic, no college i know of has detention.

you had episodes about young love and other stuff but it mainly focused on the funny, i doubt this one does.

It's worse than that: It's very obvious the new show is unrelated to TT but wears its skin as a screaming bodyglove, with stuff like every episode having a moral (when these were rare in the OG), the design being worse (Buster used to have gloves like Bugs Bunny while Babs didn't, now both are gloveless and thus even more similar to each other*), some literally who characters have protagonist roles like that girl power chick who's insufferable, etc. I tried the newest season and I had to drop it from how painfully cringe it was. It's also lazy as hell, as secondary characters are literally the same as the main ones with a different recolor, all the time, something the original didn't do that blatantly. Oh, and of course the main couple are now twins because fuck straight romance (oddly enough, though, supposedly Calamity Coyote manages to woo a girl according to one random pic I saw, but I can't confirm it as I won't watch that drivel).

*Funnily enough one of the promo art pics had Buster with the stereotypical jacket of shows that depict American universities so he was already a bit more fitting for his allegedly older age, but it was dropped for some reason.

 

[A Grey Cat]

that girl power chick who's insufferable,

You mean sweetie bird? She's in the opening lifting up a statue literally labeled "patriarchy" AFAIK there's nothing like that in the actual show but as it's been said time and time again in this thread. The new generation of Berkley and calarts graduates who make this crap don't give a fuck about being subtle or nuanced.

"Velma is NOT a lesbian! It's not true! It's bullshit! She is NOT!"
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Oh I still have fresh in my memory how after happy Halloween scooby doo "revealed" that googling velmas name would your page glitter bombed with the latest incarnation of their little pride flag and articles about how "it's offical". They've thankfully dialed back on that and as bad as the show velma was....no no I can't say anything nice about it.

It’s not animation, yet when talking about this I’m always reminded of the way Marvel Comics made the character Gwenpool asexual. They literally could figure out no other way to write it than having the character upend her entire life living on the mutant island so she could hastily enroll in an NYC college to chase a girl, only for her to realize “something’s wrong” when they tried to have sex, which lead to this literally PSA-tier scene where the girl brings her to the college’s LGBT group so Gwen can be educated on asexuality, because being a woman from the “before times” of… 2015, she literally did not know what it was. Fucking terrible.

Wow marvel, way to make everything you made in the 90s dark age of comics from the clone saga to heroes reborn look dignified by comparison. At least those had so bad their good momments like the batshit insanity of a thousand spider man clones, or wolverine drinking a beer after it got flung from the wreck of a car crash.

all the romance is stuff they either went through or wished they went through.

Perfect example of that? Owl house after luz actually started attending hexadecimal. Iircc. Dana dumbass Terrance herself has said the episode with the magical school equivalent of a prom where we learn not only is luz bi but amity is a full on lez. Is essentially her way of compensating for her own lousy junior prom, and what she wishes happened during it complete with her ideal lesbian crush confessing her love.


But as you said because it was "the before time" aka pre clown world, she blames it for being why it didn't happen that way. First off, no Danna it's nobody's fault but your own your prom was lousy and you're still seething about it. Secondly get over it will ya? It's been fifteen to twenty years since than. Most people don't remember or care that their junior prom wasn't the magical ight of friends having one last night together and romances come true that shows and movies (funny enough) on the Disney channel made them out to be when YOU were that age.


Suck it up and move on already.

 

[The_Bladder_Splatter]

From what i've seen so far about the DMC animated series (you'll never gonna make a true anime Adi!) is that yet again Adi Shankar manages to fuck up the original premise and make something that is popular with normies & tourists yet hated by the og fandom of the franchise, look dude there are reasons why a meme about never letting this man touch Berserk exists