What is really wrong with Russians and other Slavic groups of people?

[Ponzo]

The problem is that many of these countries were held back by communism and are one or two decades behind the west. Austria and Hungary used to be equal, Hungary was fucked by communism, austria was not now Hungary is economically 10 years behind Austria.

They are catching up tho, mainly because western and central europe decided to take in millions of muslim and african leeches.

 

[Agamemnon Busmalis]

I am 1000% with you, those satanic Germans are known for their insatiable lust for genocide. I am not some uninformed idiot, I watched Schindler's List, Shoah and the Pianist, I know how these Germans are.

You keep talking about Jews and ignoring the Slavs. Probably because the evidence of German atrocities against them is so overwhelming not even Holocaust deniers downplay it.

I mean look what they did in WW1.
View attachment 5548560
They literally skewered multiple children on their bayonets and goose-stepped around, absolute savage.

And why do you think that propaganda image was created? The Germans violated the neutrality of Belgium because they wanted to outflank France and committed atrocities against the civilian population during their occupation. A war of aggression against a country that has proclaimed neutrality in a conflict is nothing but murder and is never justifiable.

 

[Agamemnon Busmalis]

I am 1000% with you, those satanic Germans are known for their insatiable lust for genocide. I am not some uninformed idiot, I watched Schindler's List, Shoah and the Pianist, I know how these Germans are.

You keep talking about Jews and ignoring the Slavs. Probably because the evidence of German atrocities against them is so overwhelming not even Holocaust deniers downplay it. Sort of hard to be the based savior of white civilization when you murdered more whites and destroyed more of their cultures than anyone else in history.

I mean look what they did in WW1.
View attachment 5548560
They literally skewered multiple children on their bayonets and goose-stepped around, absolute savage.

And why do you think that propaganda image was created? The Germans violated the neutrality of Belgium because they wanted to outflank France and committed atrocities against the civilian population during their occupation. A war of aggression against a country that has proclaimed neutrality in a conflict is nothing but murder and is never justifiable.

 

[Beautiful Border]

*posts pics of Cuba*

Cuba kind of proves my point though. In fact pretty much the whole of Latin America illustrates what I'm talking about. Cuba is still a pretty popular tourist destination in spite of its government, and most people consider Havana to be charming, not depressing.

 

[The Tall Man]

You keep talking about Jews and ignoring the Slavs. Probably because the evidence of German atrocities against them is so overwhelming not even Holocaust deniers downplay it.

Are you implying that the holocaust is less real than your irrelevant whining about Slavs?
How about you check yourself chud and educate yourself about the holocaust.

Spoiler: NSFW

Notice how the moral red army not only raped and murdered the Nazi women but also the little Nazi children.

 

[Irredemable Retardation]

Are you implying that the holocaust is less real than your irrelevant whining about Slavs?

Nigger, saying that your precious national socialists wanted to exterminate one part of the eastern european population and destroy the culture of other does not equal apologism for the reds. For the people there, it was clearly the lesser evil. The national socialists created a fucking centrally administrated and formalized sexual slavery system, not even the bolsheviks did this.
How the "whining" is irrelevant when the demographic and strctural effects of Generalplan Ost are one of the reasons why most eastern european countries are shitholes besides communism?

 

[thejackal2]

Vodka.

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

I am curious about this too. And good luck discussing it because the Alt-Right fuckos that flooded this place have all become massive Slav (truly the highest form of the Aryan man) simps.

In general, East Slavs behave like White people with the souls of Orientals and South Slavs behave like White people with the souls of Muslims. This is my quick easy pitch to people who know little about them, and they generally get it. You cannot expect them to be like Western Europeans regardless of how blonde or redhaired they are.

But, why did they wind up so fucked up? I've considered if it could be Orthodoxy. The thing is, Orthodoxy is better in basically every way than Catholicism. I think a lot of it could be imperial legacies. There was a guy that wrote a book, Escape from Rome, where he argued that large hegemonic empires are awful for a people because they end up getting stagnant and become very exploitative of their own people. Very authoritarian. He made a very good geographical argument that proximity to the steppe put heavy pressure on Russia, the Middle East, and East Asia to develop large empires. The Balkans were mostly dominated the Ottomans and the parts that spent more time under Austria also, not coincidentally, became a lot more civilized (based Hungarian chads vs Serbian subhumans).

I think these sort of very authoritarian, very exploitative societies tend to breed shitty people in general, just like how Communism brutalizes the spirit and turns people selfish and vicious.

The Slavic people that seemed to actually turn out okay are the West Slavs, Poles and Czechs particularly. They were subjugated by others but weren't part of big mega steppe-bordering-empires. They had Catholicism instead of Orthodoxy. It is either the big empires or Orthodoxy or both. Russia was a disgusting hellhole long before the Communists took over.

 

[The Tall Man]

your precious national socialists

You found me out, I am an active member of the NSDAP.

You just regurgitate war propaganda.

How the "whining" is irrelevant

Because the gassing of exactly 6million Jews is more important than some nonsense about Slavs suffering.

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

I'd wish
How is that a problem in any way?
Why am I seeing right wingers moaning about nationalism, hmmm?

Because the actual truth is more important than a manufactured truth. The Polish nationalists on Wikipedia are most notable for distorting information about the ethnically cleansed eastern provinces of Germany and how it was settled, but you can also see it in the articles I'm alluding to regarding the so-called "Third Partition" of Poland where it villifies those Poles who voted to elect the Russian Tsar as their ruler.

This has practical ramifications since because this Polish nationalist historiography exists, very few Poles today realize that the Russians are their best ally and that Polish-Russian cooperation for the benefit of the Polish people and their rights has deep, deep roots.

Multiculti muttpires are never conservative; bowing to a royal bloodline is cucked and despicable.

Agree and disagree, the German Empire was an ethnostate and the Russian Empire to a degree had ethnic Russians on top although permitted Christians in general (including Catholics and especially Protestant Germans) to have high positions. Austria-Hungary couldn't figure out it what it wanted to do in terms of ethnicity (besides the Hungarians who were relatively consistent about it).

And why do you think that propaganda image was created? The Germans violated the neutrality of Belgium because they wanted to outflank France and committed atrocities against the civilian population during their occupation. A war of aggression against a country that has proclaimed neutrality in a conflict is nothing but murder and is never justifiable.

That is provably false and an early example of the same sort of atrocity propaganda we still see today with fake staged "massacres" in Syria or the Ukraine or tales of Hamas microwaving decapitated Jewish babies which coincidentally are always done by the country the Anglo-American global elite hate. Germany did nothing wrong in Belgium in 1914 because they were not a neutral country but an outpost of the Anglo-American global elite. Go read how Belgium started.

The Slavic people that seemed to actually turn out okay are the West Slavs, Poles and Czechs particularly. They were subjugated by others but weren't part of big mega steppe-bordering-empires. They had Catholicism instead of Orthodoxy. It is either the big empires or Orthodoxy or both. Russia was a disgusting hellhole long before the Communists took over.

Because Polish identity pretends everyone got to be a landlord with rights and freedoms running their own peaceful grain farm or at the very least got to be in da winged hussars, in truth the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was actually a hellhole of exploitation and serfdom that was just as bad (if not worse) than Russia. The only difference was it wasn't the government doing it, but wealthy nobles who were so greedy they fucked over their own country. Like we're talking about dudes who'd hang out in the big city all day and let their thugs run the manor, but their thugs were usually lazy so they'd hire the local Jews to go make sure their serfs were paying taxes.

It's really a shame. Within Polish lands were half of the Kievan Rus legacy (the Grand Duchy of Lithuania was a Russian-speaking Slavic state whose ruling dynasty happened to be from a Baltic tribe), medieval Poland itself was a fine nation, and the Polish and especially Lithuanian elite idealized the Roman Republic, but they couldn't do anything with this beside create an oppressive, broken state that accomplished nothing but creating poverty. The Polish elite were clearly as intelligent and capable as the rest of Europe when they needed to be, but they built nothing with it despite having the capability to and examples from history (they needed a Caesar to fix their republic).

 

[AgendaPoster]

ethnically cleansed eastern provinces of Germany and how it was settled

Yeah but you see
I am an ethnonationalist
I hate empires, that includes Nazis from the moment they invaded their neighbors. If Germans were mistreated, take them in.
IDGAF if Poles removed Germans from land they owned, especially considering the German hatred for Slavs.
As for people that wanna live under Russian Empire etc.
There are solutions, i.e. expulsion to create a more ethnically homogenous state.
I'm also not caring about Christianity either. I see it pragmatically as a shit test to keep foreigners out, but ethnicity is above all of this.
Our disagreements come from our vision for the planet. Your ideal seems to be some sort of Aryan German Natsoc empire with Anime Characteristics, and empires at war, crushing smaller countries.
I see it as a puzzle of ethnic groups that should mostly leave each other alone and mind their own business, and I am really, really adverse to any group trying to increase their power and land belongings, especially through war.
I'm consistent too, cause I have no preferred ethnicity - I an not even patriotic. My nationalist stance is purely pragmatic, foreigners destabilize when in large numbers, hence we must control foreigner flow. Ethnic cohesion increases stability and peace. I like that, I am not a war enjoyer, unless it's to crush and humiliate warmongers.
And I don't discriminate against foreign groups either, I dislike Amerimutts, Jews, Arabs, Chinese, Japanese and basically everyone else, with minor exceptions for nearby European ethnic groups like Hungarians and Poles, cause they can integrate in a European structure with ease.

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

@Save the Loli You probably know more about Poland than me. I knew it to be an elective constitutional monarchy where a huge chunk (like, 15% or so) of the population was nobility that could vote and religious tolerance. Your post makes Poland sound quite a bit like the Confederacy. A place where it's really swanky if you're in the Good Caste and a shitheap if you're in the Bad Caste.

I will say, Russia was not always bad and didn't have to become the way it did. Kievan Rus was, from what I've read, very nice. Elements of constitutional monarchy and federalism (basically a loose confederacy of city-states with powerful assemblies), a large middle class, no big serf population, etc. Outside of similar places like Renaissance Italy, it was probably the best place to live in its day. The Tatars trashed that, ruined the dream.

Next up, you've got Novgorod, same republican spirit. Isn't it odd, or even downright perverse, how many far right guys these days jerk off Rome, or the Roman Empire, while slamming republicanism? It was the republic that had a reputation for great civic virtue, and while it got worn out, so did the empire. No society goes ticking by fine forever. Yet, Novgorod ends up getting ground down under Muscovy's boot.

Peter takes over, Westernizes Russia... but only in superficial ways. He fucking loves science and culture and all that crap, but tightens the noose around their own people. Turns the serf into something much more comparable to a chattel slave. A whole nation of chattel slaves.

Then there were the Cossacks. The great free wild people of the steppe, White nomads, White runaways and radicals. When Pugachev rose against Catherine, he didn't do it to create a republic, but he did claim he would free the serfs. But it doesn't succeed. Massive rebellion raging as the American Revolution does, but one fails and the other succeeds.

And, of course, the subversion of the constitutional monarchy by the Tsar, the subversion of the republican government by the Bolsheviks, Putin taking over the post-Soviet state. Always some thugs taking control again. Always with direct help from Westerners.

Russia is full of these missed connections. It's tragic because you can see the potential in it, but it never works out.

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

Yeah but you see
I am an ethnonationalist
I hate empires, that includes Nazis from the moment they invaded their neighbors. If Germans were mistreated, take them in.

BASED ALERT
Your ethnostate's right to exist stops the moment it starts encroaching on others.
This goes for the Confederacy too, about as far from an ethnostate as you could possibly get (when your main goal is to propagate a minority to live off of), but people on the far right sucks its dick just for being brutal.

 

[AgendaPoster]

BASED ALERT
Your ethnostate's right to exist stops the moment it starts encroaching on others.
This goes for the Confederacy too, about as far from an ethnostate as you could possibly get (when your main goal is to propagate a minority to live off of), but people on the far right sucks its dick just for being brutal.

The American civil war and America are quite interesting cases. Considering the colonial project, the negro slavery etc.
I am probably with the founding fathers (?) that wanted to remove blacks and return them to Liberia. I also think that the Southern states should've been given a clear economic path forward and ensured that they would not be left behind without their slaves.
Very complicated and hard to do, but the war was catastrophic too, and I would've definitely tried real hard to avoid it. Imagine killing so many Europeans.
The destruction of the native Indians was also unfortunate and I am not OK with it either. The continent is really large. Ideally the issue could've been solved diplomatically and with economic domination+assimilation. But there was room for everyone for sure, and the groups could've cohabit the America with ease.
But now that they are mostly humiliated and pacified, it is what it is, just slowly assimilate them, or leave them alone as long as they are not troublesome.

 

[Iron Jaguar]

most people consider Havana to be charming, not depressing.

Yes, Poverty Tourists are stupid. Mind you, the charming thing about Cubanos is their resiliency and resourcefulness - e.g. keeping vehicles from the 1950's running for 70 years.

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

Yeah but you see
I am an ethnonationalist
I hate empires, that includes Nazis from the moment they invaded their neighbors. If Germans were mistreated, take them in.
IDGAF if Poles removed Germans from land they owned, especially considering the German hatred for Slavs.
As for people that wanna live under Russian Empire etc.
There are solutions, i.e. expulsion to create a more ethnically homogenous state.
I'm also not caring about Christianity either. I see it pragmatically as a shit test to keep foreigners out, but ethnicity is above all of this.
Our disagreements come from our vision for the planet. Your ideal seems to be some sort of Aryan German Natsoc empire with Anime Characteristics, and empires at war, crushing smaller countries.
I see it as a puzzle of ethnic groups that should mostly leave each other alone and mind their own business, and I am really, really adverse to any group trying to increase their power and land belongings, especially through war.
I'm consistent too, cause I have no preferred ethnicity - I an not even patriotic. My nationalist stance is purely pragmatic, foreigners destabilize when in large numbers, hence we must control foreigner flow. Ethnic cohesion increases stability and peace. I like that, I am not a war enjoyer, unless it's to crush and humiliate warmongers.
And I don't discriminate against foreign groups either, I dislike Amerimutts, Jews, Arabs, Chinese, Japanese and basically everyone else, with minor exceptions for nearby European ethnic groups like Hungarians and Poles, cause they can integrate in a European structure with ease.

I actually agree with you to an extant, but I like supranational decentralized states as a means of organizing the world so long as they don't impoverish their people or turn into globohomo hellscapes of mass assimilation. That's why the Russian Empire and especially the USSR were very good since ethnicities got their own autonomous homeland where theoretically no one could migrate to without the government's permission. While this didn't actually happen since the ASSRs were overran by Russians since all the non-Muslim groups had terrible demographics, but even the ASSRs still helped promote native culture. And the Russian Empire kept Poland autonomous until retarded Polish liberals subverted everything in the 1860s and Finland remained autonomous until the end. The Russia-Finland border had just as strict controls as Russia's international borders. I'd love to see a North American Union form, but ran by whites and with strict border controls on California, everything south of the Rio Grande, and Canada's filthy Laurentian elite in Ontario and Quebec.

I prefer the German Empire to the Nazis since none of them seemed to really get Eastern Europe beside Rosenburg. The German Empire was an ethnostate, but they envisioned a great deal of satellite nations which would build a third way between liberalism and communism. Even Poland was to gain independence, they just couldn't decide on a king and Poland got more and more Western subverted as the war went on. Problem was Germany had their own banker problem and there was a lot of socialists in Germany which they were unable to deal with and needed to use as cannon fodder in the trenches.

@Save the Loli You probably know more about Poland than me. I knew it to be an elective constitutional monarchy where a huge chunk (like, 15% or so) of the population was nobility that could vote and religious tolerance. Your post makes Poland sound quite a bit like the Confederacy. A place where it's really swanky if you're in the Good Caste and a shitheap if you're in the Bad Caste.

I will say, Russia was not always bad and didn't have to become the way it did. Kievan Rus was, from what I've read, very nice. Elements of constitutional monarchy and federalism (basically a loose confederacy of city-states with powerful assemblies), a large middle class, no big serf population, etc. Outside of similar places like Renaissance Italy, it was probably the best place to live in its day. The Tatars trashed that, ruined the dream.

Next up, you've got Novgorod, same republican spirit. Isn't it odd, or even downright perverse, how many far right guys these days jerk off Rome, or the Roman Empire, while slamming republicanism? It was the republic that had a reputation for great civic virtue, and while it got worn out, so did the empire. No society goes ticking by fine forever. Yet, Novgorod ends up getting ground down under Muscovy's boot.

Kievan Rus and Poland were both descendents of old Slavic tribal assemblies, not really "republics" any more than Anglo-Saxon England or the Holy Roman Empire were republics. The elite of the tribe were independent-minded and got to vote on a ruler. Novgorod was the last remnant of this and they usually voted a Russian prince as their ruler, so it was more of an elective monarchy than anything else. But in all respects their institutions and society were very similar to late medieval Moscow, like they still had institutionalized serfdom and strong nobility. If someone was a serf, they would still have trouble changing their master, even if it wasn't quite the pseudo-slavery it became in the 17th/18th centuries.

Peter takes over, Westernizes Russia... but only in superficial ways. He fucking loves science and culture and all that crap, but tightens the noose around their own people. Turns the serf into something much more comparable to a chattel slave. A whole nation of chattel slaves.

Then there were the Cossacks. The great free wild people of the steppe, White nomads, White runaways and radicals. When Pugachev rose against Catherine, he didn't do it to create a republic, but he did claim he would free the serfs. But it doesn't succeed. Massive rebellion raging as the American Revolution does, but one fails and the other succeeds.

And, of course, the subversion of the constitutional monarchy by the Tsar, the subversion of the republican government by the Bolsheviks, Putin taking over the post-Soviet state. Always some thugs taking control again. Always with direct help from Westerners.

Russia is full of these missed connections. It's tragic because you can see the potential in it, but it never works out.

Peter the Great wasn't really any different than his contemporaries in Western Europe. Most nations established solid absolute monarchies like France, Austria, etc. and it was the general trend. Even strengthening serfdom was a general trend in Eastern Europe since as I mentioned, Poland-Lithuania did too and so did the Austrian Empire and parts of Prussia (the East Elbian provinces).

 

[AgendaPoster]

That's why the Russian Empire and especially the USSR were very good since ethnicities got their own autonomous homeland where theoretically no one could migrate to without the government's permission.

I can't read past this.
Not personal, I like you as a user.
USSR has forcibly moved ethnic groups around to diminish ethnic cohesion and destroy any nationalistic resistance to the central authority.
It's a completely reasonable and expected thing to do inside an empire.
Hungary has magyarized Transylvania when it had it, in an attempt to disenfranchise the Romanian majority. Again, the reasonable thing to do, they were right to be afraid, cause we pushed them out immediately as it was possible. After that, Romania has romanized the area under communism, and Ceausescu moved populations from Moldova and Wallachia to Transylvania to basically dislodge Germans and Magyars. Ukraine does the same thing.
It's basically a given.
This is why I just can't stand empires. It's such a grandiose lie.
I just fail to see why people must defend countries and regimes as a whole. I think there are good things to learn from each of these regimes. But a synthesis should be the goal, not glorification of the past. Something for the future instead, where we acknowledge mistakes were made.

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

I can't read past this.
Not personal, I like you as a user.
USSR has forcibly moved ethnic groups around to diminish ethnic cohesion and destroy any nationalistic resistance to the central authority.
It's a completely reasonable and expected thing to do inside an empire.
Hungary has magyarized Transylvania when it had it, in an attempt to disenfranchise the Romanian majority. Again, the reasonable thing to do, they were right to be afraid, cause we pushed them out immediately as it was possible. After that, Romania has romanized the area under communism, and Ceausescu moved populations from Moldova and Wallachia to Transylvania to basically dislodge Germans and Magyars. Ukraine does the same thing.
It's basically a given.
This is why I just can't stand empires. It's such a grandiose lie.
I just fail to see why people must defend countries and regimes as a whole. I think there are good things to learn from each of these regimes. But a synthesis should be the goal, not glorification of the past. Something for the future instead, where we acknowledge mistakes were made.

That's a very Eastern European perspective because in Eastern Europe there weren't really cohesive ethnicities since in Western Europe they were eliminated by the end of the Middle Ages (except in Spain, which was a union of several kingdoms). Like most of the people within the former Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth weren't "Poles" or "Lithuanians" or "Ukrainians" or "Belarusians", they just identified by their religion and their local region and spoke mixed dialects. Inevitably when these types of people get educated (as they did in that era given the expansion of education), they will form a new identity based on the sort of education. And that goes double when people move into cities and come in closer contact with each other.

It seems very difficult to have a true multiethnic society without segregating groups into different regions. Otherwise all you get is at best something like modern Africa--all the ethnic groups and diversity blend together into a single culture (i.e. "Nigerian" or "Congolese"). Transylvania was insanely multiethnic, like 1/4 German, 1/4 Hungarian, 1/4 Romanian, and 1/4 Jew, Gypsy, etc. What exactly is the solution there without segregation (like Northern Ireland between Catholics and Protestants) and ghettoization, or something like the concept of "National Personal Autonomy" which if you'll notice was favored by some groups of communists (not Lenin or Stalin though) and Zionists.

 

[AgendaPoster]

That's a very Eastern European perspective because in Eastern Europe there weren't really cohesive ethnicities

They were cohesive enough to start WW, Balkan wars, and collapse empires under the stress of the failing multiculturalism. They were cohesive enough to have the 1850-ish nationalist revolutionary era. We have writings that survived from the 1700, 1600 even sometimes, from all 3 regions of modern Romania. The amount of suffering because of being split and under various empires, the pining to have one single land is a near constant. By the 1800s poets and writers were basically all ethnic nationalists, wanting to purge foreigners and single mindedly focused on unification.
Ethnicity does develop over centuries, but it does start from a common core.
Anyway, as I said, we have two differing visions. Both are fantasies. Yours because the German Reich is dead, and so is the USSR, and the peoples that were under them are scared to have that repeated. Also Germans are now a timid shadow of their former warrior past, impotent. Nordic tribes like Swedes and Norwegians, largely the same, victims of a century of liberalism. Russia is the only country with a half-alive warrior caste, also Ukraine, due to being forced in a war, but even like that they are pacified and unexciting societies compared to the past, no grand vision, no nothing, their heroes easy to mock, their rulers paranoid and small-minded. There is no new art that's not kitsch. No soul to their war. Just geopolitics.
My own vision is fantastical because what I want cannot exist due to the geopolitical interests of larger countries. There is no way to convince Russia to not annex lands it wants other than WW. There is no wat to convince China to be happy without Taiwan. There is no way to reason with the US to stop being the ZOG golem and meddling into anything it can. It's just how the planet works, and my half-bakes ethnic state exists only because the mutts tolerate it for geopolitical reasons.
It's all just very, very tragic and sad, because of the immense evil of the ruling classes everywhere.
Any serious destabilization of the horrendous system we have now will likely lead to all out war, which would be catastrophic with the weapons we have and set us back centuries.
Personally, I have zero intentions to die for anything or anyone. There is nothing on this planet I like enough to sacrifice for, 100% certainty.

 

[Irredemable Retardation]

You found me out, I am an active member of the NSDAP.

You just regurgitate war propaganda.


Because the gassing of exactly 6million Jews is more important than some nonsense about Slavs suffering.

War propaganda? This shit is barely known in the western world, and the details of how the national socialists seized the means of reproduction + the scope of their sexual slavery program was only known post war.
Focusing about the joos is easy because they are a dead horse, but many normies will get surprised about how the national socialists thought slavs were a inferior race and the scope of their extermination war against them.
Himmler said clearly in the Posen speech, Hitler implictly talked about it in Mein Kampf, and yet the neetsocs will deny it.