Off-Topic What is YOUR fundamental issue with troons outside of their batshittery.

[Jacques1194]

I'm probably more allowing than most of this forum re: trans people, maybe because I don't deal with any IRL, but beyond my tolerance I just don't see the point of transitioning given it is literally impossible to become the opposite sex. If there are things that the other gender do that they like, they're free to do it too. If they would like to speak a certain way, they can speak that way. If they want to play dress up, they can play dress up, drag queens have existed for centuries. But they have to stay cognisant that, at least as far as modern science goes, they are stuck as they are and must make peace with it, just as everyone makes peace with aspects of themselves that are not ideal.

It seems surreal to me that an idea like 'I don't feel like I'm in the right body' is not a call to help people accept their body.

A common tactic that TIPs use is that they claim they aren't changing their sex but changing their gender.If they were just trying to change their gender then they'd be perfectly happy with what you said, and be seen as masculine women or feminine men.Otherwise what is the whole point of getting these surgeries to try and convince people that your sex is different from what it actually is?This is what i'll never understand about these people.Why is being part of your “true self” means tricking everyone into thinking your biology is different from what it actually is, and to the point that you require surgery?How is living a life of hiding, lies, and trickery seen as “authentic”?

 

[JULAY]

I think that's all, but I may add more in a future post if I think of other stuff troons do that really grinds my gears.

 

[Sperghetti]

In online terms, it's the expectation that everybody needs to agree now that gender is Very Important, and be just as preoccupied with it as they are. It's like considering people to be moral failures because they don't know all the ins and outs of what constitutes every genre of metal music, and flipping out if a general list of music genres doesn't explicitly include "post-thrash" and "nu metalcore".

Not to mention pronouns. There's something about insisting on what pronouns you must be called that just sounds like you're saying "you must refer to me as 'your majesty'" to me. No, fuck you.

In real-life terms, it's the underlying sexism of it all. The whole narrative is completely based around gender stereotypes. Oh, you aren't exactly the Marlboro Man? Not the girliest girl? Well that means there's something wrong with you that you're gonna need regular injections and extensive cosmetic surgery to "correct", or else you're doomed to a life of suicidal self-loathing. That's the whole underlying message, and it's dressed up as if it's something positive and progressive and, again, that it's a mindset everyone should subscribe to.

A common tactic that TIPs use is that they claim they aren't changing their sex but changing their gender.If they were just trying to change their gender then they'd be perfectly happy with what you said, and be seen as masculine women or feminine men.Otherwise what is the whole point of getting these surgeries to try and convince people that your sex is different from what it actually is?This is what i'll never understand about these people.Why is being part of your “true self” means tricking everyone into thinking your biology is different from what it actually is, and to the point that you require surgery?How is living a life of hiding, lies, and trickery seen as “authentic”?

That's another thing: There are so many contradictions like this because despite how much they try to act like it's an objective thing and trans people are a cohesive "community", trooning out is now a fad and a subculture, and everyone who participates is justifying it with whatever point is most convenient to them at the moment.

It's like munchies where they're trying to ape having a chronic condition or disability, and keep throwing out conflicting explanations to justify themselves.

 

[Baraadmirer]

The whole narrative is completely based around gender stereotypes. Oh, you aren't exactly the Marlboro Man? Not the girliest girl? Well that means there's something wrong with you that you're gonna need regular injections and extensive cosmetic surgery to "correct", or else you're doomed to a life of suicidal self-loathing.

The funny thing is that it'd be considerably less expensive and body-damaging to mold people into the ideals of their sex. Not a super girly-girl? Well you're flawed and we're going to shower you with dolls and send you to finishing school. Not a super manly-man? You're a disgrace and are going to learn how to fell trees and know everything there is to know about the local football team.

Oh wait, these are conservative traditionalist talking points so that's bigoted and patriarchal Doing unnecessary damage to the human body and parodying the stereotypes of the opposite sex is brave and stunning

 

[Debbie Macomber]

It's my theory that if a troon's Fairy Godmother could wave her wand and hentai genderbend them into the sex they want to be, they'd immediately want to transition back because they'd still have the broken part of their brain that says "You're actually the opposite sex".

Maybe that's what's up with detranses. They went far enough that their opposite day brains started telling them they're actually the sex they started out as.

You'd have Ranma standing there all day saying "I'm a woman trapped in a man's body!" *splash* "No, wait, I'm a man trapped in a woman's body!" *splash* "Ah dang it! Now I'm a woman trapped in a man's body again!"

 

[Spangled Drongo]

I find it interesting that troons feel the need to wear trans color everything and include trans flags in their profiles.

It seems like a guilt complex. They know they'll never be the sex they're pretending to be, so they feel compelled to mark themselves as a liar so everyone will know, even online.

It's like if gays in Nazi Germany chose to mark themselves with the pink triangles just for fun

Don't forget it's also for the victimhood points. Why blend in and be normal when you can be obviously part of an oppressed group? They want to have their cake and eat it too - there's the trans women are women! mantra, but what that actually means is that the man in a dress not only wants to be referred to as she/her and ma'am, he also wants the VIP treatment wherever he goes, be it online or offline. They get away with all sorts of things that actual women could never dream of - I'm thinking of that teacher with the massive fake boobs and short shorts, although more evidence that he's just an expert troll seems to be coming out. Still, imagine if a real woman in that same role with naturally large breasts came to work like that - you know she'd face disciplinary action, but the troon gets away with it because gender expression. The idea they just want to "pass" is a complete joke.

 

[Spiro T. Agnew]

Maybe that's what's up with detranses. They went far enough that their opposite day brains started telling them they're actually the sex they started out as.

I think that's one of their main issues - troons can't actually want to be the opposite gender, because they have no frame of reference for what being that gender actually entails. TiMs can only ever act the way they think women act, and TiFs can only ever act the way they think men act. It's why their behaviour always seems so forced and over-the-top.

Troons are essentially woman blackface and the world just allows them to go on.

 

[teriyakiburns]

Troons are essentially woman blackface and the world just allows them to go on.

Only for so long. Blackface went out of fashion before becoming socially offensive. Same with castrati, who were at one point feted and worshipped in the way some people slavishly adore actors today. Troons will follow the same path, sooner or later. Probably sooner, simply because they're so offensively grotesque that the collective ability to tolerate them will wear away much faster.

 

[PointOfNoReturnPoint]

Only for so long. Blackface went out of fashion before becoming socially offensive. Same with castrati, who were at one point feted and worshipped in the way some people slavishly adore actors today. Troons will follow the same path, sooner or later. Probably sooner, simply because they're so offensively grotesque that the collective ability to tolerate them will wear away much faster.

It's kind of wild how they don't see the similarities. It's something that's here today and gone tomorrow by even the people who are involved in it. Everyone who knew blackface was a fad didn't lie about it. But here we are thinking a hormonal driven loser with no future is the way to live in the 21st century.

 

[ZsaZsaBinks]

I used to watch a lot of gender transition slideshow videos when it became front page news in the mid 2010’s, and the narratives were always “I was never happy”, “I was born in the wrong body”, “I took cross-sex hormones, and it saved my life”. Looking back, such words came across as so manipulative. I can’t imagine how many people forever ruined their bodies because they watched these videos.

 

[PointOfNoReturnPoint]

I used to watch a lot of gender transition slideshow videos when it became front page news in the mid 2010’s, and the narratives were always “I was never happy”, “I was born in the wrong body”, “I took cross-sex hormones, and it saved my life”. Looking back, such words came across as so manipulative. I can’t imagine how many people forever ruined their bodies because they watched these videos.

It's like an MLM saying the impossible to get you lured in. Nothing less. Their is simply no way you would go for this unless it promised pie in the sky results.

 

[TruffleSpark]

It's like an MLM saying the impossible to get you lured in. Nothing less. Their is simply no way you would go for this unless it promised pie in the sky results.

MLMs are actually a pretty good analogy. "Egg cracking" isn't that different to trying to convince people all their problems will disappear if they start selling shitty nutrition supplements. And just like MLMs the person who is being exploited by the people who drafted them into it get to turn the tables and exploit the new recruit. Thus continuing the cycle of abuse.

 

[Anomalous Coward]

I instinctually hate anyone with unjustified power over me, especially when that power is granted by 3rd parties (government in this case). I don't hate my manager but it's also a big reason why I am also racist.

 

[PointOfNoReturnPoint]

I instinctually hate anyone with unjustified power over me, especially when that power is granted by 3rd parties (government in this case). I don't hate my manager but it's also a big reason why I am also racist.

IT's really a valid response tbh, what else can you do? They have no reason to be in the position of authority they are in.

 

[Procrastinhater]

I find it offensive on a visceral level that they try to force compliance with this shit by using emotional blackmail "play along with my delusions or I'll kill myself" and "we have to pander to this shit or they will kill themselves" and the most fucking vile, offensive, and unforgivable of all, the line that they're trained to use on parents "would you rather have a live ___ or a dead ____" the last one in particular is gross and vulgar emotional manipulation, designed to cynically take advantage of an already stressed and bewildered parents love and concern for their child, and make them go along with what all their instincts and common sense is telling them is a life destroying mistake.
Its fucking evil.
I've never been overly religious, but the explosion of deviance and immorality in the last ten years especially, the way the celebrate the most vile forms of fetish twisted hedonism and perversion, up to and including body mutilation, has convinced me of the existence of evil as a metaphysical force.
I have seriously never been religious, but I can't help but notice that the more that traditional religion has been sidelined and abandoned the more power and authority this deviant shit has gotten.
These people are fucking demons.
I said it.

 

[One-Eyed Willies Treasure]

Idk whether it's a result of years of gaslighting or just naturally occurring empathy for the turmoil of another human being, but I still feel guilt in deriding people for being trans. I try my hardest to not hold groups of people in contempt but troons make it exceptionally difficult sometimes. I have 1 mtf friend who I consider myself to be incredibly close with, and he has never been the type to be obnoxious and oppressive with his decision to transition. I would like to assume that I will remain friends with this person as long as both of us are alive, but I always feel incredible guilt and shame when playing into their preferred gender identity, because I know deep down that I do not believe it and I'm lying to his face. Maybe he is truly happier because of this new label, as he seems to act that way pretty consistently. Is it the overwhelming superficial approval and validation from others that boosts his confidence? Even if some of the approval is just surface level shit, who am I to detract from the positive feelings gained from him trooning out? I'm rambling on a lot, but my point is that I'm really fucking confused on my feelings towards the whole concept. On one hand there's the fact that many of the troons I've encountered are generally annoying, self centered, obnoxious, and oppressive. I hate the constant goal post moving. I hate the dissolution of many woman only spaces. I REALLY hate the inherent misogyny that mtf's almost never acknowledge, but actively participate in. On the other hand, I do realize that many real people who deserve to be happy are finally getting the courage (whether it be troon placebo confidence or not) to go out and pursue said happiness, such as my friend. The fact that I post the things I post in here would probably crush this friend, but at the same time I'm very tired of pretending that I willingly go along with every single idea introduced by troons and their increasingly manipulative agenda. I don't wanna be labeled a nazi or a right-wing zealot. I know I'm not one and I know I'm not inherently a hateful person, and the fact that I can easily be assigned that label because I'm not 100% against people like Matt Walsh or the many detransitioners who share their stories is just really fucking annoying.

TL;DR Troons are contributing to the destruction of nuanced thoughts and opinions and perpetuating extremisim which is really backwards and stupid imo.

 

[SwanSwanson]

OP already posted my main gripe. I suppose I'll post another issue I have with them and thats just their sheer machiavellian demand for power and dominance. They could easily stay in their hugboxes and live their lives, yet they insist that there cannot be any opposition to them, anywhere.

You'd think someone who wants to be a woman would want to inherit their kindness, but it seems like they want to transition into this abominable combination of obnoxious HR bitches and Harvey Weinstein. Troons completely rely on fear and shame to maintain their position in society.

 

[PointOfNoReturnPoint]

I find it offensive on a visceral level that they try to force compliance with this shit by using emotional blackmail "play along with my delusions or I'll kill myself" and "we have to pander to this shit or they will kill themselves" and the most fucking vile, offensive, and unforgivable of all, the line that they're trained to use on parents "would you rather have a live ___ or a dead ____" the last one in particular is gross and vulgar emotional manipulation, designed to cynically take advantage of an already stressed and bewildered parents love and concern for their child, and make them go along with what all their instincts and common sense is telling them is a life destroying mistake.
Its fucking evil.
I've never been overly religious, but the explosion of deviance and immorality in the last ten years especially, the way the celebrate the most vile forms of fetish twisted hedonism and perversion, up to and including body mutilation, has convinced me of the existence of evil as a metaphysical force.
I have seriously never been religious, but I can't help but notice that the more that traditional religion has been sidelined and abandoned the more power and authority this deviant shit has gotten.
These people are fucking demons.
I said it.

I am not allowed back in several locations in real life for talking about how I told the person in this mindset to go through with it and see if they are really in that mindset. The idea of saying "you wont" is a bit of a gamble but fuck me does it ever get to the bottom of something.

If you want to look at it that way, you could. I see what you are on about. I think the access to others and being able to engage in it alot more readily is what also helped push it so far into the extreme. You may remember the early 00's or earlier and how hard it would be to find anything like this if ever be exposed to it at all. While back then it was not as venerated as it is now ( at-least in the circles that participate. ) You still simply would not have come across it at work/bowling alley or anything else unless you had a real stroke of luck or some kind of movie style interaction with someone.

You are 100% correct in morality stopping this however. Thats why in Dubai this simply does not happen as they would be executed and made an example of. Brutal but gets the point across. While I don't think you should hang a man for liking cock, I do think the overall violent adherence to morality is great.

OP already posted my main gripe. I suppose I'll post another issue I have with them and thats just their sheer machiavellian demand for power and dominance. They could easily stay in their hugboxes and live their lives, yet they insist that there cannot be any opposition to them, anywhere.

You'd think someone who wants to be a woman would want to inherit their kindness, but it seems like they want to transition into this abominable combination of obnoxious HR bitches and Harvey Weinstein. Troons completely rely on fear and shame to maintain their position in society.

The problem is that these people have absolutely no power in life, and through the way it's looked at socially this gives them just that. One of the things I see is that people that never really "grew" in any way to become someone cling to this, so that they can finally find "themselves". This is the same situation that a moderator on reddit or discord finds themselves in as they have simply not gotten to where they should be organically in life to round out properly. You ever notice how they always think they are 100% correct on something, cant be told no, or never able to be proven wrong until something comes along that completely pulls the ass from underneath their " beliefs". "Conviction" which they readily throw away for something more convenient because if they had critical thinking skills they simply wouldn't be a troon.

 

[TruffleSpark]

I guess the thing that pisses me off about their lies is the obvious bullshitness of them. You can tell that even they don't really believe a lot of what they say. It's less about saying something you believe in and more about signalling that you are willing to wilfully ignore reality.

 

[Troon_Patrol]

Oh boy, where do I even start. In this world, in this life you play the hand you are dealt, if you're not the smartest you deal with it, if you are never going to make it to the NFL you learn to be great at what you can do. To me, vast majority of troonism is all about being a failure as a man and not owning up to it. The vast majority of troons are pathetic people with no accomplishments in life, they refuse to believe they are complete and utter failures, someone comes along and tells them every single thing that they have failed at isn't their fault, no, it was the doctor's fault the doctor who delivered them into this world got it all wrong and that's why they can't get girlfriend, that's why they are unemployed, that's why the world is out to get them, it's all the fault of some doctor decades ago. The people who fall into this category are usually confused, dumb and very vulnerable people, very often with autism, they are very gullible and naive, people on discord and other social media convince them that because their favorite color is purple or pink they are actually transgender, and they are very special and unique and rare and did I mention special? The next common "type" of troon is the AGP, he's watched a ton of sissy porn an he's bored with his life he often has children or a family he abandons to live out his fetish, no longer content with just masturbating to messed up pornography he now requires an unwilling third party to live out his fantasy. Meaning unless someone else sees him in women's clothing he cannot enjoy it, this is the most dangerous type of troon, very commonly they are sex offenders not limited but including sexual assaults on minors and animals, they have an extremely strong sense of self entitlement and are more than willing to harm others in their pursuits to force society to recognize them as women. The remaining troons are just typically gay men who are not content with just being gay, their fetishes include having sex with strait men they achieve this by dressing as women and lying to people. These troons typically go into prostitution or other sex work, there is high number of deaths associated with them often confused for bigotry and disgust; in reality they choose to not reveal their actual gender, and often don't reveal till they have tricked an ultimately unwilling partner into having some form of sex with them, obviously this leads to the deceived party being enraged. Many are just killed because sex work is ultimately dangerous and they refuse to get a real job.

TL;DR,

Troons are:
#1 Men who failed as men but, not willing to own their failure.
#2 Sexual deviants who demand to live out their fetish's in public.
#3 Gay men lying to strait men.

They don't deserve to be a protected class, these are all lifestyle choices of extremely selfish, extremely mentally ill people.