Why can't women on dating apps hold a conversation?

[Lee Crabb]

Without too much powerleveling (and I do apologize if I do), let me give my perspective based on my own experiences with online dating on and off for ten years.

Many years ago, I did an experiment where I made a throwaway email and placed a personal ad online to see "how the other side lives", as at the time I saw myself getting ghosted and ignored over and over again. I certainly was going into the incel route while believing I must have been the ugliest guy in the world. I designed my fake profile to be an attractive but somewhat realistic woman: natural red hair, green eyes, pale skin, DD breast size, 5'5" tall, 150lbs age 24. Within the next few hours, I had probably over a hundred messages from thirsty guys., some of them old enough to be "my" father. The best response was asking if I was "a messy 150lbs". A few hours later, the ad got deleted , probably some weirdos mad I didn't respond reported it as spam.

So what did this teach me?
1) Women on dating sites, even 1/10 women to a lesser extent, are suffocating under a pile of dicks.
2) By clogging up her inbox, you are also under this mound of dicks
3) These are real ugly dicks both inside and outside and like some have mentioned earlier, they can get real creepy and scary at the drop of a hat. Some women probably send short terse messages because they are feeling you out or are really jaded by the experience. It is true that some use the site as a validation device and have no intention of forming a relationship . However, these are pretty easy to spot. If their profile is the most generic thing imaginable ("I love to laugh"), don't even bother.
4) Practicing basic grooming regularly, losing a few BMI points/gaining a tiny bit of muscle definition, having at least a couple hobbies that aren't vidya, and not acting desperate puts you above half of these guys alone. Lowering your standards A LITTLE BIT and only messaging women who have at least one thing in common or something interesting improves your chances even more.


And finally, never forget:

 

[Neo-Nazi Rich Evans]

And finally, never forget:

but he is the rich evans, nobody can compete with that.

 

[Cool Dude 69]

Online Dating Spaces can feel like you're exchanging CV's which is a really weird way to initiate a relationship. Its hard to communicate in lieu of that (assuming you're not getting the cold shoulder).
When I think of the men I've interacted with, both irl and online: the times when it was a face-to-face meeting (ie. some dude at a bar), the interaction was so much easier because more 'information' could be inferred immediately. Online was a lot more socially taxing, because you're trying to figure someone out and be comfortable with them when theres a lot of missing sensory feedback.

 

[Car Won't Crank]

Online Dating Spaces can feel like you're exchanging CV's which is a really weird way to initiate a relationship. Its hard to communicate in lieu of that (assuming you're not getting the cold shoulder).
When I think of the men I've interacted with, both irl and online: the times when it was a face-to-face meeting (ie. some dude at a bar), the interaction was so much easier because more 'information' could be inferred immediately. Online was a lot more socially taxing, because you're trying to figure someone out and be comfortable with them when theres a lot of missing sensory feedback.

That's basically an application of information theory when it comes to person to person communications. From lowest to highest information transferred to most would be text/sms, phonecall, video call, in person. When you have the full gamut of information, it certainly makes actually communicating with the other party a more normal experience. That's why the whole deal about using masks with infants was actually worthy of consideration. The babies pick up on their parents' facial cues and such that helps with their mental growth. That info is lost with the face mask.

 

[eternal dog mongler]

4) Practicing basic grooming regularly, losing a few BMI points/gaining a tiny bit of muscle definition, having at least a couple hobbies that aren't vidya, and not acting desperate puts you above half of these guys alone. Lowering your standards A LITTLE BIT and only messaging women who have at least one thing in common or something interesting improves your chances even more.

This.

Although for shared interests I don't want to play 20 questions. Find something in common and make me excited to come hang out with you in a neutral environment, and you really need to do that almost immediately.

e: I will also say don't list shit in your profile that you aren't interested in.

 

[Zero Day Defense]

Putting this together, women would rather seem passively disinterested and hope the man gets the hint rather than potentially draw his ire by either ignoring him, or rejecting him outright deliberately choose to suck at communication despite allegedly being more socially adept than men

Fixed that for you.

Fact of the matter is, even beyond my correction, it's fundamentally that the women who do that, do not want to take responsibility for drawing a line in the sand and making someone sad-- but then they blame "creepy men" (let's assume for argument's sake that "creepy" doesn't translate to "ugly") for why they do it to men that aren't "creepy", that they matched with. Somehow, they have to deal with the ghosts of these ugly creepy men when he hasn't done anything wrong and the other party knows he didn't do anything wrong.

If it's actually a matter of what's being communicated (I'm not convinced, the logic doesn't line up), it's not about agreeability-- it's about passivity and indecision. And this isn't the only time I've seen/heard of this behavior pattern, either, so I have an idea of what's up.

People who ghost should be put in ovens. Just say no.

No, you don't-- -- you don't get it.

If the woman says "no, I'm not interested", then the ugly creepy man is going to materialize in her room through her phone and rape her to death! It doesn't matter that the cops can act on such a threat if he actually knows where she lives, and it doesn't matter that you're not a rapist and don't merit that treatment according to their own concerns.

It doesn't even matter that you matched in the first place, or that you can unmatch and never re-match with such a guy instead of leaving him on read, or that such an ugly creepy guy will still foment his ire on account of being left on read.

It doesn't even matter that they're expecting a sensible response from someone they fear will give them a dangerous response from being communicated with normally!

L--like-- [wheeze] --the ugly creepy guy isn't still going to blow up your inbox anyways and maybe threaten to rape you!

Is it really that bad to say that you're bored by the other party, or you don't have much to go on for conversation most of the time? One or both of you being talking saltines aside, it's not hard to see the issues in the Tinder format for online dating and how they don't readily lead to fruitful discovery of the other-- this inflation of non-issues/immediately solvable issues is beyond sense. The thought process is actually so bullshit, it could only be a meme.

 

[eternal dog mongler]

I dunno the incel tears coming out of your post are drowning me right now

 

[Bunny Tracks]

Fixed that for you.

Fact of the matter is, even beyond my correction, it's fundamentally that the women who do that, do not want to take responsibility for drawing a line in the sand and making someone sad-- but then they blame "creepy men" (let's assume for argument's sake that "creepy" doesn't translate to "ugly") for why they do it to men that aren't "creepy", that they matched with. Somehow, they have to deal with the ghosts of these ugly creepy men when he hasn't done anything wrong and the other party knows he didn't do anything wrong.

If it's actually a matter of what's being communicated (I'm not convinced, the logic doesn't line up), it's not about agreeability-- it's about passivity and indecision. And this isn't the only time I've seen/heard of this behavior pattern, either, so I have an idea of what's up.

No, you don't-- -- you don't get it.

If the woman says "no, I'm not interested", then the ugly creepy man is going to materialize in her room through her phone and rape her to death! It doesn't matter that the cops can act on such a threat if he actually knows where she lives, and it doesn't matter that you're not a rapist and don't merit that treatment according to their own concerns.

It doesn't even matter that you matched in the first place, or that you can unmatch and never re-match with such a guy instead of leaving him on read, or that such an ugly creepy guy will still foment his ire on account of being left on read.

It doesn't even matter that they're expecting a sensible response from someone they fear will give them a dangerous response from being communicated with normally!

L--like-- [wheeze] --the ugly creepy guy isn't still going to blow up your inbox anyways and maybe threaten to rape you!

Is it really that bad to say that you're bored by the other party, or you don't have much to go on for conversation most of the time? One or both of you being talking saltines aside, it's not hard to see the issues in the Tinder format for online dating and how they don't readily lead to fruitful discovery of the other-- this inflation of non-issues/immediately solvable issues is beyond sense. The thought process is actually so bullshit, it could only be a meme.

You do know that getting matched with someone automatically doesn't mean you're safe, right? Like, the person could still flip their shit, and stuff?

 

[Zero Day Defense]

You do know that getting matched with someone automatically doesn't mean you're safe, right?

You do know that not responding-- and not unmatching-- doesn't make you any more "safe", right? Like, the guy can still blow up your DMs and pronounce his intention to rape you-- which, in all likelihood, he can't actually do because he doesn't know where you live?

And even if he did, you could just call the cops if you do fear for your life?

But, see, if you just say that you're uninterested, and you unmatch him, and you never re-match with him... you don't have to deal with any of that.

But, let me guess: that's too mean? It takes too much effort?

 

[Bunny Tracks]

You do know that not responding-- and not unmatching-- doesn't make you any more "safe", right? Like, the guy can still blow up your DMs and pronounce his intention to rape you-- which, in all likelihood, he can't actually do because he doesn't know where you live?

And even if he did, you could just call the cops if you do fear for your life?

Okay, but the point still stands.

Not gonna lie, this seems very personal to you. You usually don't type like this, and I mean in your post before this one. Are you okay?

 

[Zero Day Defense]

Okay, but the point still stands.

Not gonna lie, this seems very personal to you. You usually don't type like this, and I mean in your post before this one. Are you okay?

This is the kind of response I expect from someone so concerned about picking at how I said something, that they don't bother to acknowledge what I said, even though they act as if they're responding to what I said.

To summarize, however: the justification given for the strategy isn't just retarded at every premise: it's so feeble-minded I don't actually believe it's a genuine thought process. It's either a meme or intentional and un-proofread dishonesty, and it's a waste of my time and sympathies.

Perhaps the most ridiculous aspect is that those who employ it supposedly expect the guy unstable enough to declare to her his intentions to rape her... to just stop talking to her because she ghosted him. Despite the fact that she didn't even unmatch him (at which point he couldn't start/continue his tirade). I

The kinds that tout this supposedly expect the irrational/criminally-minded... to behave rationally and civilly. They supposedly expect this to happen without making any clear action, and they cite nearly non-existent danger for sympathy. But it isn't even mostly applied to those people-- guys that are deemed "normal" in post are apparently collateral damage.

 

[DamnWolves!]

There's a reason it only works for the above average and obstinate.

As a decidedly average guy, you can make it work for you. Did I hook up with any 9s? No. But plenty of 6's and 7's. What are your pics like, OP? Think about the type of woman who would be attracted to the guy you're presenting yourself as.

If you're looking to like, get married, you probably want something like Match or eHarmony, because that's where the women who want to get married are. Hinge and Bumble and shit are like, mid-range, and then Tinder you're going to have to drop your standards again because it's a hookup app.

 

[eternal dog mongler]

The kinds that tout this supposedly expect the irrational/criminally-minded... to behave rationally and civilly. They supposedly expect this to happen without making any clear action, and they cite nearly non-existent danger for sympathy. But it isn't even mostly applied to those people-- guys that are deemed "normal" in post are apparently collateral damage.

Yeah yeah whatever we know you watched Joker.

Give it a break and find some new hobbies and learn how to talk to people.

 

[Bunny Tracks]

This is the kind of response I expect from someone so concerned about picking at how I said something, that they don't bother to acknowledge what I said, even though they act as if they're responding to what I said.

To summarize, however: the justification given for the strategy isn't just retarded at every premise: it's so feeble-minded I don't actually believe it's a genuine thought process. It's either a meme or intentional and un-proofread dishonesty, and it's a waste of my time and sympathies.

Perhaps the most ridiculous aspect is that those who employ it supposedly expect the guy unstable enough to declare to her his intentions to rape her... to just stop talking to her because she ghosted him. Despite the fact that she didn't even unmatch him (at which point he couldn't start/continue his tirade). I

The kinds that tout this supposedly expect the irrational/criminally-minded... to behave rationally and civilly. They supposedly expect this to happen without making any clear action, and they cite nearly non-existent danger for sympathy. But it isn't even mostly applied to those people-- guys that are deemed "normal" in post are apparently collateral damage.

I wasn't trying to pick it apart. I was just noticing that you usually don't try to joke around in your big essay posts, and it came across like you were actually upset. I wasn't trying to be a dick. I was just genuinely curious.

Anyway, as others have posted, it's not really the fact that women are afraid they're going to get raped (although I'm sure that's a concern for some of them), or are saying that shit for sympathy. It's just that they're drowning in men spamming their inboxes, and don't wanna waste time answering them all because 1) there's too many of them, and most will just take the hint, and fuck off, and 2) they don't wanna get yelled at weirdos chimping-out at them for getting rejected.

It's unfair, and normal guys do end up as collateral damage like you said, but that's not really the woman's fault. Should they be more upfront? Yeah, if only because some shitheads just can't read the room, and get that ghosting means they're not interesting in you anymore, but do I think it's a big enough deal to get this mad about?

Not really, dude.

 

[Zero Day Defense]

I suspect being able to make a insult worth a damn is is highly related to being able to make a worthwhile joke.

Anyway, as others have posted, it's not really the fact that women are afraid they're going to get raped (although I'm sure that's a concern for some of them)

But it's particularly that which I'm addressing. I have no issue with "the woman is bored by the conversation", or even "the woman has a lot of people in her inbox". I said that, already:

Is it really that bad to say that you're bored by the other party, or you don't have much to go on for conversation most of the time? One or both of you being talking saltines aside, it's not hard to see the issues in the Tinder format for online dating and how they don't readily lead to fruitful discovery of the other

But when someone tries to make it into something more highbrow than the reality of lack of interest, when they try to assert that women aren't looking to get dates on a dating app and that's why they suck at conversation and/or ghost men, and when they specifically argue "I'm trying to mitigate risk to myself by ghosting men who literally do not know where I am without even un-matching with them so they can continue to clog up my inbox with their oaths to turn me into their corrupted sex slave"? All this, instead of just communicating to start, even though their strategy doesn't mitigate anything?

This is beyond men and women processing social dynamics differently. In the most polite of terms, they're ultimately arguing that adult women are severely retarded and out of touch with causality. They're arguing that women think in a way that defies both reason and predictability, and are accordingly unable to be accommodated (I've already explained why that's the case). They're doing it because they want to make apathy/passivity into more than what it is-- or because they're regurgitating a meme.

You infer anger in that heavy-handed satire of mine. On the contrary, it's incredulity. I have no reason to believe that women are severely retarded, and I'm not going to humor arguments that amount to it.

It's unfair, and normal guys do end up as collateral damage like you said, but that's not really the woman's fault.

The individual chooses to ghost-- it's not an action they're forced to do, and it's allegedly done to non-ugly non-creepy men because of a nonsense strategy. Irrespective of why they do it, however, it's literally "their fault" and they have to be able to confidently justify it to themselves any which way.

Just don't argue in the open that your intentions are noble. Especially not in the ways previously described.

 

[Bunny Tracks]

Just don't argue in the open that your intentions are noble. Especially not in the ways previously described.

And don't try to argue about people ghosting you when you write walls of retarded texts.

Seriously, have you ever thought that they might be ghosting you because they don't wanna waste time reading all the shit you send them?

 

[Zero Day Defense]

And don't try to argue about people ghosting you when you write walls of retarded texts.

I wasn't talking about people ghosting me. I was talking about specific irrational justifications given for ghosting, after reiterating that ghosting (especially in dating apps) wasn't big enough of a deal that you couldn't be honest about losing/lacking interest in some matches over others.

"I wasn't trying to be a dick", she said.

Serves me right for actually believing that you weren't angling to be a cunt for once.

 

[Cool Dog]

I want to start off by saying that online dating, its a numbers game, if you're an average dude at best then you got bad numbers, and if you're below average then ngmi, just see a prostatot it will be cheaper on the long run

I recall a poll where 40% of women on tinder said they were only in it for the freebies from simps, mostly food but other shit too. No surprise since half the bitches there have their insta on their bio, they are clearly fishing for simps and those simps have basically ruined it for the rest of men by inviting these hookers-by-any-other name to flood the place

Now you might think I'm bashing women but actually I'm not, you have to understand that they are only taking advantage of the situation and you would be too if you had their odds. Dating apps are overwhelmingly mostly men, I think there are only like 4 cities in the entire fucking planet where women outnumber men on tinder, and tinder makes money off your desperation that drives you to pay for premium so it is in their best interests to keep you alone and desperate

On the other hand shit its getting ugly because all other forms of dating are falling off a cliff, most people are, like it or not, meeting online. I'm pretty sure the match group which owns basically every app out there (look it up) its also paying for all those blogs telling women that if they meet a guy offline he's gonna go ted bundy mode and kill them so they should stay online only, and of course men will go where the women are as always, same reason why bars have ladies night get it?

But what you have to understand is that its always been like this, men never had the upper hand in dating not even in islamic countries where you were/are forced to marry your ugly cousin, we always had to work more to get any, you were fed the propaganda just like women are told the patriarchy is real

One chick I know made a tinder profile for her foreveralone friend and pretended to be him. She quit after a week and got depressed because she was getting zero matches while as an average-at-best woman she was getting 50 matches a day and thus thought it was her fault. It wasnt, its just that her friend was a 6/10 at best and thus deemed worthless, its just the way it is

And today as a dude you have to be downright retarded to get married in this day and age. If you got even a crumb of talent with hookups you're better off fucking around until your 50s, and by your 60s you're the same way than a married guy who's alone due to divorce and his kids not giving enough of a shit to even call him, except you will have money because you didnt lose it all in a divorce and bankrolling a bunch of ungrateful cunts

Marriage just isnt worth it anymore, theres no social gain if you do nor condemnation for not doing so, divorce laws for men are shit even in non-western countries, and if you're that pathetic and desperate then sex tourism is a thing now unlike 50 years ago

 

[Zero Day Defense]

Now you might think I'm bashing women but actually I'm not, you have to understand that they are only taking advantage of the situation and you would be too if you had their odds.

Would I?

Would I really become a wandering gigolo if I had the chance?

 

[Kermit Jizz]

I want to start off by saying that online dating, its a numbers game, if you're an average dude at best then you got bad numbers, and if you're below average then ngmi, just see a prostatot it will be cheaper on the long run

I recall a poll where 40% of women on tinder said they were only in it for the freebies from simps, mostly food but other shit too. No surprise since half the bitches there have their insta on their bio, they are clearly fishing for simps and those simps have basically ruined it for the rest of men by inviting these hookers-by-any-other name to flood the place
View attachment 3690492
Now you might think I'm bashing women but actually I'm not, you have to understand that they are only taking advantage of the situation and you would be too if you had their odds. Dating apps are overwhelmingly mostly men, I think there are only like 4 cities in the entire fucking planet where women outnumber men on tinder, and tinder makes money off your desperation that drives you to pay for premium so it is in their best interests to keep you alone and desperate

On the other hand shit its getting ugly because all other forms of dating are falling off a cliff, most people are, like it or not, meeting online. I'm pretty sure the match group which owns basically every app out there (look it up) its also paying for all those blogs telling women that if they meet a guy offline he's gonna go ted bundy mode and kill them so they should stay online only, and of course men will go where the women are as always, same reason why bars have ladies night get it?

But what you have to understand is that its always been like this, men never had the upper hand in dating not even in islamic countries where you were/are forced to marry your ugly cousin, we always had to work more to get any, you were fed the propaganda just like women are told the patriarchy is real

One chick I know made a tinder profile for her foreveralone friend and pretended to be him. She quit after a week and got depressed because she was getting zero matches while as an average-at-best woman she was getting 50 matches a day and thus thought it was her fault. It wasnt, its just that her friend was a 6/10 at best and thus deemed worthless, its just the way it is

And today as a dude you have to be downright retarded to get married in this day and age. If you got even a crumb of talent with hookups you're better off fucking around until your 50s, and by your 60s you're the same way than a married guy who's alone due to divorce and his kids not giving enough of a shit to even call him, except you will have money because you didnt lose it all in a divorce and bankrolling a bunch of ungrateful cunts

Marriage just isnt worth it anymore, theres no social gain if you do nor condemnation for not doing so, divorce laws for men are shit even in non-western countries, and if you're that pathetic and desperate then sex tourism is a thing now unlike 50 years ago

On your bit about marriage, I understand that the laws are completely stacked against men, but do you honestly think that it's never worth it? You talk like marriage are always destined to fail, and that's a pretty cynical outlook even to me.