Argue with vatniks over trains

[Noto Bok]

This whole train thing was a real thread derailment.

 

[Fapcop]

Firstly, France isn't the only nation on the continent with Nukes. A few have them as part of NATO's MAD policy. Germany has them, so no chance of an invasion.

What? You should contact the media with this news. Pretty sure it would a big story that Germany has nukes all of a sudden.

Russia isn't unopposed in any way. NATO and the EU practically had to stop Poland from rushing across the border for some 100 year old revenge.

That’s a weird way to spell: “Poland’s government were beating war drums like a retarded ape, despite having no plans of war, because it’s an election year and they want headlines.”

Most nations in Western Europe are either directly in NATO or part of the wider alliance.

Yes, Western European nations have participated in what is basically a kickback scheme for taxpayer money: Buy burger weapons, get lucrative think tank jobs when you retire.

NATO also serves as a nice watering hole for generals and their aides looking for a well paid job with little importance.

Too bad, that the few brigades that survived the Cold War cuts, were further cut down in the 2000’s so they could be quickly deployed to kill shitskins around the world.

European arsenals are, kinda like their armies, empty and hollow though. You seem to ignore that part.

European militaries are operating under the very idea of an invasion from Russia and have done so for the better part of a century.

LMAO!

If you by “invasion from Russia” mean “Warsaw Pact invasion”… That ended over 30 years ago, bud. And even in 1984 the plan was basically: “If the Warsaw Pact attacks, we are fucked. With a little luck though, we may delay them in the Fulda gap for long enough to allow reinforcements from the US.

You don't need extensive numbers in this era to win wars - European militaries are vastly more well equipped in every aspect of warfare compared to Russia - including the training of both Regular and Territorial forces.

LMAO! Is this an alternate timeline or something?

Because in the Europe I live in, European militaries have been focused on “low intensive kinetic warfare” for two decades.

Basically: If we need to, we can send a brigade of our high tech equipped troops to the Middle East if you give us a few days.

European nations have spent the last three decades cutting military budgets to the extent that their militaries exist mostly as an exercise in symbolism.

When Germany had to equip a battalion to regiment sized force a few years ago, they could only do it by raiding tank units and cannibalizing units, to scrounge up a few dozen tanks.

And more to the point even IF Europe wanted to rebuild their militaries. (They don’t. We have welfare states and refugees to pay for), they couldn’t do it. All of those weapons plant that used to equip Cold War NATO armies? They, with a few exceptions, closed decades ago.

Russia would get as far as half way through Poland before both EU and NATO would be turning their armour and personnel back to dust in the wind. Ukraine held off, and pushed back. You seriously think that Russia could do shit to Europe or any fully developed nation?

Again: LMAO. You clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. “EU would be turning their militaries”?! And what EU army is that? The battalion sized Euromil army they threw most of the functioning equipment into and sent to the Baltic countries?

Why do people assume Nukes are so easily used on either side? Both sides of the cold war went through much worse and much more volatile scenarios, and neither side pulled the trigger on Nukes. Why would that suddenly change? There would be no reason to even use them - nations aren't exactly eager on extensive occupation; even if Russia Proper or Europe Proper was attacked, outside of ethnic regions of claim, no one wants to occupy anything. The overall outcome of war now isn't occupation - it's political overlording.

And what is war exactly, if not politics by other means?

Plus, even if nukes did fly between Russia and the west, any impact of an ICBM in Europe or Asia would result in nuclear particulation across the continent. MAD has worked because even the most brain dead retarded narcissist realizes that crossing that barrier means absolute destruction even if the enemy can't get a shot off in retaliation.

The problem with MAD is that it presumes that whoever is in the White House will gladly trade a nukes Chicago or NYC to get revenge for Berlin.

Massive doubt on that one. Are you seriously naive to think that an American president would risk total nuclear destruction of North America, because a tactical or strategic nuke went off in Warsaw? Not gonna happen.

On top of that, a ICBM launched in Europe is likely going to be intercepted and destroyed before entering sub-orbit to align for re-entry.

Ah yes, I forgot that nukes can just be shot down in the alternate reality you’re from. And that there are no such thing as hypersonic delivery vehicles, decoys and cross polar nukes that hit from where there is no radar screen. No biggie then!

This is retarded for numerous reasons.

Well at least we can agree on one thing. There is indeed retardation afoot.

Now tell me again about the mighty EU army and their laser weapons that neutralize nukes.

 

[Doctor Love]

Honestly love the train hypothetical discussion. It's educational in showing how tactical planning should be debated. It's a ridiculous plan, but if I was someone in the U.S military and I was sold this plan, I dont think anybody would chime in and openly say how it wouldn't work because of this and this.

I honestly think there is merit in it with the element of surprise, but It feels like it would win the battle and lose the war. Then again he is saying it's a metaphor for other strategy's.

It's enlightening how many peoples understanding of war comes down to "well that probably wouldn't happen so we shouldn't consider it at all" - like they seem to completely believe in the idea that Russia, after we just funded an enemy on their border for two fucking years, will play fair and just come at us single-file. They could be building up in boats, ready to stage a coup d'etat wherever the fuck they want. Loading up into freight cars, or digging tunnels underneath. They could be smuggled in the base of a lorry - they will not "follow the script"

So this is what it feels like to lurk on other thread! Femoids fight autist over his russian trains fanfic


Ohio/Maine/Virginia

The SPED Bus.

На Украине
или, что еще хуже, в Прибалтике

Nope, one of the countries you guys seem to think will come in and be able to fight half a million Russian soldiers lol

 

[Sexual Chocolate]

War.
War never changes (platforms)

 

[Fapcop]

The UK; France; Germany; Norway; Sweden; Hungary; pretty much every European nation. European nations have so much to spare that they sent shit to Ukraine too.

Yes, they have emptied out arsenals that would take years to replenish. Cold War era arsenals from back when European nations still had armies.

European armies have been assisting as much in Ukraine as the United States in training and preparing Ukrainian troops. Why do people assume that European militaries don't exist? Just because the focus of the militaries are different from the US doesn't make them any less effective at their intended purpose.

Gee, I don’t know… Could it be the massive funding cuts for three decades?

Could it be all the years of spending 1-2% on defense? Money that immediately got swallowed up by overpriced American garbage?

Could it be all the divisions that got turned into regiments and regiments becoming battalions? Militaries that basically became make-work programs for the very few people who signed up?

Could it be that deploying troops to Afghanistan and Iraq, even in small numbers swallowed the little military capacity there was?

Could it be stuff like the fact that Germany, one of the biggest anrmies in Europe, only has a few hundred tanks, only half of which actually work? https://www.farsnews.ir/en/news/14020923000444/Repr-German-Army-Lsing-Manpwer

Could it be that you know fuck all about this topic, but just repeat what some faggot on Twitter wrote?

 

[Feline Supremacist]

Nope, one of the countries you guys seem to think will come in and be able to fight half a million Russian soldiers lol

I could care less which shithole you come from tbh

 

[Susanna]

If the president called for a surrender, and I am being really nice and choosing Poland, would the rest of NATO and the EU agree or disagree?

And our governments - get this - will probably give in to those demands. They are no more serious than the demands Germany has given other EU countries, like, "take in more refugees, bigot!" - what's a paltry Russian "get rid of the American bases, and stop with the gay shit"

That's what I'm getting at, they could do any of this shit at their leisure. They don't need to destabilise them, they're run by cowards and businessmen.

Ignoring all the train nonsense, I’d like to mention a few things you’re probably missing here.
No government is going to surrender to anything short of utter and complete military defeat. Even shitholes like Sweden have “this government will never surrender, any claims to the contrary are an enemy psyop, it’s your duty to aid the government to your dying breath” as policy, and when they feel a heightened tension they will mail cringey letters explaining conscription to all their citizens. I got such a letter from my dual citizenship delivered to Russia just a few months ago, even though I wouldn’t be eligible for conscription even if I actually lived in the EU.
From your perspective as a citizen it makes all the sense in the world to surrender fast. It spares the population, the infrastructure, and the economy, all that changes for you is which overlord you pay taxes to. But to the government, this is a doom scenario. If they’re deposed, they’re nobodies again, and worse, they’ll probably be prosecuted and barred from engaging in the new government. They’ll have to become commoners again and make an honest living.

 

[RodgerDodger]

And okay, step 1) train stopped because apparently there's a central "emergency button" which just explodes all the railway lines in the entire EU.

For 2 years the Russian Army could not project power more than 100 km past their own land borders. The Russian Navy has lost control of the Black Sea and the Baltic. And russian trains do not fit on European train tracks.

Yep! Sure sounds like 6 hours to Berlin to me.

 

[blur]

I love the choochoo idea. Not the train plan itself but imagining real, open, unapologetic military sponsored terrorism. "Move over state sponsored terrorism via the CIA, we're here now" style.

Just look at all the havoc Iran was able to cause around the entire planet with a little backing. Not even measuring in terrorist attacks, but the damage to social cohesion, the economy, the rise of tyranny, and how those things have gradually hollowed out previously untouchable intuitions and destroyed the social contracts of rival powers on the other side of the planet. Also look at how the politics of central and south america are so insane due to little narco power structures polluting institutions and trade.

 

[Fougaro]

This whole train thing was a real thread derailment.

 

[Doctor Love]

Ignoring all the train nonsense, I’d like to mention a few things you’re probably missing here.
No government is going to surrender to anything short of utter and complete military defeat. Even shitholes like Sweden have “this government will never surrender, any claims to the contrary are an enemy psyop, it’s your duty to aid the government to your dying breath” as policy, and when they feel a heightened tension they will mail cringey letters explaining conscription to all their citizens. I got such a letter from my dual citizenship delivered to Russia just a few months ago, even though I wouldn’t be eligible for conscription even if I actually lived in the EU.
From your perspective as a citizen it makes all the sense in the world to surrender fast. It spares the population, the infrastructure, and the economy, all that changes for you is which overlord you pay taxes to. But to the government, this is a doom scenario. If they’re deposed, they’re nobodies again, and worse, they’ll probably be prosecuted and barred from engaging in the new government. They’ll have to become commoners again and make an honest living.

See this is somehow an even more terrifying proposition.

The whole "Russians just invading anyway" - the idea that the UK government would, after spending my entire life trying to dilute my voting power and a year-on-year decrease in my quality of life - expect me to defend Rishi Sunak from being killed by Russians.

 

[Eternal Gopnik]

Just look at all the havoc Iran was able to cause around the entire planet with a little backing. Not even measuring in terrorist attacks, but the damage to social cohesion, the economy, the rise of tyranny, and how those things have gradually hollowed out previously untouchable intuitions and destroyed the social contracts of rival powers on the other side of the planet.

I really don't think the likes of Biden, Nuland, Milley, or von der Leyen, Timmermans, and Stoltenberg in Europe, are on Iran's payroll. These are all homegrown psychopaths, and the current state of the West is just the consequences of terminal liberal democracy.

 

[Silent Seeth]

See this is somehow an even more terrifying proposition.

The whole "Russians just invading anyway" - the idea that the UK government would, after spending my entire life trying to dilute my voting power and a year-on-year decrease in my quality of life - expect me to defend Rishi Sunak from being killed by Russians.

I like my family unraped and my washing machine where I left it. I'd fight for practically anyone who heads my country.
I reckon most of Europe is the same.
Russia hasn't got a monopoly on fighting spirit.

If it was a matter of defending the government then I wouldn't care, but the people inevitably killed by whatever they'd attack cities with are different.

 

[Doctor Love]

I like my family unraped and my washing machine where I left it. I'd fight for practically anyone who heads my country.

We already have that, thanks to Pakis.

We have literal millions of Muslim and African migrants doing all of these things. Hell, if you'd like, you could rape your own family, and washing machine, and beat the Russians to it!

 

[Male Idiot]

The idea was not Russians can't use rails, just that it would be a dumb sneak attack.

In ww2 you could even capture german trains.

But with satellites and drones everywhere, surprise attacks are getting harder and harder to pull off.

And ruskies are doing fine. They don't need a sudden hail mary plan.

 

[Bloodthirsty Nosenigger]

It's enlightening how many peoples understanding of war comes down to "well that probably wouldn't happen so we shouldn't consider it at all"

You're a complete and utter retard. Yes, nobody here is humoring your idiotic ideas.
No, that does not mean that nobody, in the history of warfare, has ever considered the concept of surprise attack behind enemy lines.
It may come as a surprise to you, but you did not just personally invent the "coup de main".

I know you're slow, so let me spell things out once more: Warfare is not a game of "capture the flag".
Surprise with a few hundred gopniks on trains does not equal victory.
Opposing forces do not suddenly vanish into thin air, because of a couple infantrymen on trains.

 

[WhiskeyJack]

The train theory is retarded obviously, but I am surprised the Russians haven't pushed a few teams into greater Europe to randomly cause trouble. Sabotage can be very effective, and is oddly rare in modern warfare (probably because all recent wars involved enemies that had basically no real infrastructure after the initial invasion). Won't win the war or anything, but could cause a real headache and be very demoralizing for the public.

A dozen guys could easily enough move around with fake passports or just sneaking in with the migrant hordes. Same for the CIA sending people into Russia to bomb random cars and generally annoy/frighten the population. Once again, D.C. was shut down for weeks by two guys with a shitty car and single rifle. A few teams of trained soldiers should be able to do better than that in major cities all over Europe, you'd think.

Unless that is happening and it just doesn't get much media coverage.

 

[Doctor Love]

You're a complete and utter retard. Yes, nobody here is humoring your idiotic ideas.
No, that does not mean that nobody, in the history of warfare, has ever considered the concept of surprise attack behind enemy lines.
You didn't just personally invent the "coup de main".

I know you're slow, so let me spell things out once more: Surprise with a few hundred gopniks on trains does not equal victory.
Opposing forces do not seize to exist, or seize to resist, because of a couple infantrymen.

"Seize to exist?"

What? What opposing forces are these, exactly? The police? Is there some gigantic standing army somewhere in the countryside that can counter this?

Everything would have to go wrong for the Russians in order for it to fail, while everything would have to go perfectly right for the defenders. A few hundred gopniks would lead to thousands of deaths, if it gets ugly - so the priority would be to make sure it doesn't get ugly.

The train theory is retarded obviously, but I am surprised the Russians haven't pushed a few teams into greater Europe to randomly cause trouble. Sabotage can be very effective, and is oddly rare in modern warfare (probably because all recent wars involved enemies that had basically no real infrastructure after the initial invasion). Won't win the war or anything, but could cause a real headache and be very demoralizing for the public.

A dozen guys could easily enough move around with fake passports or just sneaking in with the migrant hordes. Same for the CIA sending people into Russia to bomb random cars and generally annoy/frighten the population. Once again, D.C. was shut down for weeks by two guys with a shitty car and single rifle. A few teams of trained soldiers should be able to do better than that in major cities all over Europe, you'd think.

Unless that is happening and it just doesn't get much media coverage.

Yeah but that lacks the "influence" part. They'd need a puppet, or some way to make their demands known.

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole 2]

The idea was not Russians can't use rails, just that it would be a dumb sneak attack.

In ww2 you could even capture german trains.

But with satellites and drones everywhere, surprise attacks are getting harder and harder to pull off.

And ruskies are doing fine. They don't need a sudden hail mary plan.

Ok, but listen to my idea: poisoning the toilet paper supply. People won't die immediately but in a few weeks everyone that isn't a filthy hobo will have sucked up enough poison through their asshole that they become seriously sick or start keeling over. Who would suspect toilet paper bio terrorism?

 

[Agent Sandoval]

The train theory is retarded obviously, but I am surprised the Russians haven't pushed a few teams into greater Europe to randomly cause trouble. Sabotage can be very effective, and is oddly rare in modern warfare (probably because all recent wars involved enemies that had basically no real infrastructure after the initial invasion). Won't win the war or anything, but could cause a real headache and be very demoralizing for the public.

A dozen guys could easily enough move around with fake passports or just sneaking in with the migrant hordes. Same for the CIA sending people into Russia to bomb random cars and generally annoy/frighten the population. Once again, D.C. was shut down for weeks by two guys with a shitty car and single rifle. A few teams of trained soldiers should be able to do better than that in major cities all over Europe, you'd think.

Unless that is happening and it just doesn't get much media coverage.

The issue I see with that is that sabotage operations are "loud" and communications being how they are raids will be reported as they are happening rather than days after the fact. To keep a spy in a foreign country requires a great deal of investment both in initial training and upkeep and isn't without risk. If you were to send sabotage teams to a foreign country I agree it could cause a lot of havoc, but it would require thorough training and a great deal of exposure of existing spy networks. Is the havoc caused worth the risk of a declaration of war which is both justified and publicly popular? If you start fucking with civilians and the dots get connected that will backfire in a big way.