Argue with vatniks over trains

[Spunt]

This train shit is so retarded it'd be rejected by Bollywood for being too unrealistic.

Ok so:

1. How do you expect they'd get many thousands of troops onto trains without intelligence assets knowing? Or even just the public? Why wouldn't Europe just block the track?
2. Ok say the magic train does make it to Paris, Berlin, etc. How effective do you think unsupported infantry will be?
3. How will they survive for even a day? And I don't mean raiding an Aldi I mean they will immediately be surrounded by incredibly pissed off local forces on their home turf with a hostile civilian population undermining the operation?
4. How does Russia survive having the entirity of NATO declare war?

Also, something like 80% of European railways are electrified. They can just turn the power off. So yeah, there is a "big red shut the railways down" button. (In my country, it routinely presses itself, no foreign invasion necessary). And even if you deploy glorious Soviet cheeki-breeki steam choo choo, the lines are all blocked by de-powered electric trains.

This makes the Schlieffen Plan look like Operation Overlord.

Again, realistically, this plan doesn't work. But let's assume they manage to pull it off in one city. If this happens during the day, the likelihood the train is stopped along with all the others is very high. Let's not forget that if this happens at night, most of the government is asleep in their homes. They won't be in a centralized location, best you can hope for is detaining the head of the government by storming his personal residence and maybe some civilians. Government remains mostly intact.
The police refuse to move and prevent the Russian soldiers from reaching their objective. The police are shot by an invading force. Yuros mad. Retard plan is no longer bloodless. Confirmation of every Russian boogeyman theory ever. Tell me how the Russians wouldn't be interpreted as terrorists with even the people who are normally pro-Russian fucking infuriated?

Every European capital has to deal with thousands of English football hooligans and Italian Ultras several times a year. A few hundred Mobliks are child's play by comparison if you're the Belgian riot police.

 

[Fapcop]

I'd like better confirmation than pro-Russian social media. I don't expect Kiev to announce it but if this is true it's big enough to warrant some official non-denial denials, etc... That would represent like 2% of the value of all US AID delivered to date? And it was blown up before even being unpacked with weapons that no defense exists against? And we're arguing about sending more billions to these clowns?

It’s hardly unrealistic and out of the realm of possibility.

Kinzhal’s has proven to not give a shit about NATO air defenses numerous times.

And the air above Ukraine is full of drones at all times. It’s safe to assume that Russia knows what’s coming in much of the time regardless. There are only so many airfields and rail heads that you can use for these kinds of transfers.

If there will be a Ukrainian reply it’ll be the same as always: “It’s totally not true, but now that you say it, this train delivering toys for toddlers was bombed while being unloaded. All Russian missiles were shot down, the train was destroyed.”

Magic train is just a stand-in for any kind of "way around the defenses for a relatively small portion of the many, many soldiers now positioned almost directly at the EU's border" - we would not have any way of actually dealing with it outside of diplomatically begging for mercy.

If Germany managed to pull off Barbarossa, I think it’s reasonable to believe that Russia can pul of something similar.

And it wouldn’t even need to be a massive million man army. Germany for example has a few hundred tanks in ready service. (If that many.)

There’s not even enough equipment and manpower to talk about divisions, they were all turned into brigades and regiments a long time ago.

IF Russia invaded, they’d only need to deal a bloody nose at whatever troops were near the border, and the rest would collapse. There won’t be any civilians heroically looking for weapons to defend themselves. There won’t be any heroic hussar attacks.

What there will be, is a handful of inexperienced troops getting slaughtered, recruits surrendering en masse, a massive refugee stream westwards and panicked phone calls to Moscow.

If you signed up for a western military, you did so because you wanted a secure pension, a job with a mildly physical element and maaaybe, if you’re an old hand you remember what it was like to shoot at Afghani farmers.

 

[Doctor Love]

train autist stop sperging about trains.

it's not about the trains, it's about what the trains represent

it's about the Russians using anything except "walking across the border single-file" to access the EU. We have absolutely no civil defenses, we don't have guns, and honestly, I don't like the idea of putting my life on the line to save a single member of the UK Parliament.

It seems like the entire strategy is, firstly, to assume Russians are retarded and that they just "wouldn't" use any other way to well, avoid casualties of their own.

Also, something like 80% of European railways are electrified. They can just turn the power off. So yeah, there is a "big red shut the railways down" And even if you deploy glorious Soviet cheeki-breeki steam choo choo, the lines are all blocked by de-powered electric trains.

This makes the Schlieffen Plan look like Operation Overlord.

See what I mean, the entire defence seems to be "Well that probably wouldn't happen in exactly that way since it would be toooo hard" - yes, it would be a long shot but the question is, what would actually happen?

We don't have a massive standing army of patriots, we have fat people and no guns.

 

[Spunt]

what would actually happen?

At best, Putin disowns the "deserters" who tried to stage a coup in Warsaw entirely of their own volition, trust me bro, and their CO falls out of a hotel window entirely by accident not long afterwards.

At worst, WWIII.

 

[Fapcop]

Also, something like 80% of European railways are electrified. They can just turn the power off.

This is patently ridiculous. Who would turn off the power? That would require there is a plan, and not you know, seperate bureaucracies acting in wild confusion and panic.

Lemme guess, you’re a burger? Who exactly would have to turn off the power? There is no central “train go brrr” button in some office in Brussels you can just press.

Railway lines without electricity would do nothing to stop diesel trains (which Russia uses extensively), and btw: THIS IS A PROBLEM THE RED ARMY SOLVED DECADES AGO.

It’s not that long that Russian troop trains went from Moscow to Germany, Poland and Czhech Republic. But suddenly a different rail gauge is massive problem without a solution? Bro…

So yeah, there is a "big red shut the railways down" And even if you deploy glorious Soviet cheeki-breeki steam choo choo, the lines are all blocked by de-powered electric trains.

Again, we’re not talking about supplying a massive million man army, lol.

And I find it pretty funny that we’re talking about transport being a major issue in a 21st century war.

Germany managed this in WW1. Heck, even Russia did in WW1, even if poorly.

Germany managed to do so for a long time in 1941, despite different rail systems and scorched earth tactics.

But somehow, supplying troops to go to Warsaw or Berlin along well built European highways and rail lines is some impossible feat? Come on…

This makes the Schlieffen Plan look like Operation Overlord.

And the Schlieffen plan worked pretty well. As well as could be hoped for, given the technology and limitations of the time.

 

[Buck Breaking SS]

Gentlemen, stop fighting! This is the war room!

 

[Doctor Love]

This is patently ridiculous. Who would turn off the power? That would require there is a plan, and not you know, seperate bureaucracies acting in wild confusion and panic.

Just imagine if you tried to say "Hamas could use paragliders to infiltrate Israel" or "The Taliban can just walk into American bases and take their tanks lol"

 

[Spunt]

This is patently ridiculous. Who would turn off the power? That would require there is a plan, and not you know, seperate bureaucracies acting in wild confusion and panic.

Lemme guess, you’re a burger? Who exactly would have to turn off the power? There is no central “train go brrr” button in some office in Brussels you can just press.

I'm not a Burger. I'm a Euro, and do you seriously fucking think there aren't massive state-owned signalling centres in every European country that can't be called by the government and told to cut the power or switch every signal in the country to red? Because there are. When there's an accident or other emergency it's one button to de-energise an entire line.

Railway lines without electricity would do nothing to stop diesel trains (which Russia uses extensively), and btw: THIS IS A PROBLEM THE RED ARMY SOLVED DECADES AGO.

Except all the failed electric trains blocking every single line. Do you even know how trains work? They can't steer. If there's a train in front, they have to wait.

It’s not that long that Russian troop trains went from Moscow to Germany, Poland and Czhech Republic. But suddenly a different rail gauge is massive problem without a solution? Bro…

Again, we’re not talking about supplying a massive million man army, lol.

And I find it pretty funny that we’re talking about transport being a major issue in a 21st century war.

Germany managed this in WW1. Heck, even Russia did in WW1, even if poorly.

Germany managed to do so for a long time in 1941, despite different rail systems and scorched earth tactics.

But somehow, supplying troops to go to Warsaw or Berlin along well built European highways and rail lines is some impossible feat? Come on…

And the Schlieffen plan worked pretty well. As well as could be hoped for, given the technology and limitations of the time.

Jesus this is stupid. All the examples you gave are of railway operations in friendly, or at least friendly-occupied territory. The proposal was a railway blitzkreig into hostile territory with no engineering support, on lines crowded with civilian trains, controlled by centralised, computer-operated signalling and network control centres where they can quite literally shut an entire country's railways down in minutes.

Railways are an incredibly vulnerable and fragile piece of infrastructure. They're prone to operational problems and snarl-ups even when there isn't some Soviet surplus diesel trying to bulldoze its way to Rotterdam.

 

[Doctor Love]

Jesus this is stupid. All the examples you gave are of railway operations in friendly, or at least friendly-occupied territory. The proposal was a railway blitzkreig into hostile territory with no engineering support, on lines crowded with civilian trains, controlled by centralised, computer-operated signalling and network control centres where they can quite literally shut an entire country's railways down in minutes.

No, it's for a single train among all of those to be quietly filled with Russian soldiers.

In or out of uniform, maybe it just continues onward on a clear line - who would make that call?

Which is more likely, someone says "uh there's a train which isn't listed on the timetable. Maybe it's a timetable error" or "Wow, there's a train which isn't listed on the timetable. Boy, I bet it's full of Russian soldiers who are headed to Warsaw with guns. I should use my authority, as a ticket inspector, to call in a fucking airstrike because this TRAIN WASN'T LISTED CORRECTLY"

Here's one even better! They hijack an empty train, or have men inside the stations who - get this - lock two or three of the carriages at the back of a normal civilian train. The rest of the train continues as normal, and unless some of the Russian soldiers start waving their guns out of the window and declaring their intent to the locals, nobody would fucking notice until the train doors click open, in the middle of Warsaw, and around 250 heavily armed Russians march towards the President's house.



I have no idea why you're sperging about specifics without addressing the overarching theme. If the president called for a surrender, and I am being really nice and choosing Poland, would the rest of NATO and the EU agree or disagree?

 

[SaidNoOneEver]

No, it's for a single train among all of those to be quietly filled with Russian soldiers.

In or out of uniform, maybe it just continues onward on a clear line - who would make that call?

Which is more likely, someone says "uh there's a train which isn't listed on the timetable. Maybe it's a timetable error" or "Wow, there's a train which isn't listed on the timetable. Boy, I bet it's full of Russian soldiers who are headed to Warsaw with guns. I should use my authority, as a ticket inspector, to call in a fucking airstrike because this TRAIN WASN'T LISTED CORRECTLY"

Here's one even better! They hijack an empty train, or have men inside the stations who - get this - lock two or three of the carriages at the back of a normal civilian train. The rest of the train continues as normal, and unless some of the Russian soldiers start waving their guns out of the window and declaring their intent to the locals, nobody would fucking notice until the train doors click open, in the middle of Warsaw, and around 250 heavily armed Russians march towards the President's house.



I have no idea why you're sperging about specifics without addressing the overarching theme. If the president called for a surrender, and I am being really nice and choosing Poland, would the rest of NATO and the EU agree or disagree?

The pro-uke thread sent you here didn't they?

 

[Fapcop]

Railways are an incredibly vulnerable and fragile piece of infrastructure. They're prone to operational problems and snarl-ups even when there isn't some Soviet surplus diesel trying to bulldoze its way to Rotterdam.

Your entire post is retarded.

Germany managed to supply over four million soldiers for six months in a country with terrible infrastructure and sabotaged railway lines over 80 years ago… Yet somehow today it’s impossible to supply 50-100.000 men just half that distance because someone, somewhere presses a button and something, something.

Unless you’re seriously suggesting that the battle plan would be for the Russian army to all get aboard the Warsaw-Berlin ICE?!?

(In which case you’re right. They’d all be delayed. Deutsche Bahn is crap.)

 

[Spunt]

No, it's for a single train among all of those to be quietly filled with Russian soldiers.

In or out of uniform, maybe it just continues onward on a clear line - who would make that call?

Which is more likely, someone says "uh there's a train which isn't listed on the timetable. Maybe it's a timetable error" or "Wow, there's a train which isn't listed on the timetable. Boy, I bet it's full of Russian soldiers who are headed to Warsaw with guns. I should use my authority, as a ticket inspector, to call in a fucking airstrike because this TRAIN WASN'T LISTED CORRECTLY"

Here's one even better! They hijack an empty train, or have men inside the stations who - get this - lock two or three of the carriages at the back of a normal civilian train. The rest of the train continues as normal, and unless some of the Russian soldiers start waving their guns out of the window and declaring their intent to the locals, nobody would fucking notice until the train doors click open, in the middle of Warsaw, and around 250 heavily armed Russians march towards the President's house.

Trains have changed a bit since the 1920s, especially in Europe.

A non-timetabled train would literally trigger klaxons in the operations room. Everything is micro-managed and computerised to the second. It would have the points set against it because it would be assumed to be a runaway. Most modern trains physically can't drive past a red signal without the emergency brakes being applied.

And what would 3 carriages of Russian soldiers actually achieve, even assuming that nobody notices 250 Slavs with violin cases who don't have tickets and who have somehow turned off the CCTV? You shoot the president? Congratulations on your coup. There are now tanks surrounding the building and ICBMs on their way to Moscow.

Your entire post is retarded.

Germany managed to supply over four million soldiers for six months in a country with terrible infrastructure and sabotaged railway lines over 80 years ago… Yet somehow today it’s impossible to supply 50-100.000 men just half that distance because someone, somewhere presses a button and something, something.

Unless you’re seriously suggesting that the battle plan would be for the Russian army to all get aboard the Warsaw-Berlin ICE?!?

(In which case you’re right. They’d all be delayed. Deutsche Bahn is crap.)

Hang on, I'm arguing with the guy who thinks you can sneak the Trojan Horse express to Vienna without anyone noticing and somehow conquer all of Europe with an Inter-Rail pass.

You could of course re-purpose the railways to supply troops, but only in territory you already occupy. It would be a lot harder and take longer than it did in WWII, but it's possible. But you have to invade first. You can't invade a country by train. That's why nobody builds battle trains, they build tanks because tanks go where the fuck they want.

 

[Doctor Love]

Railways are an incredibly vulnerable and fragile piece of infrastructure. They're prone to operational problems and snarl-ups even when there isn't some Soviet surplus diesel trying to bulldoze its way to Rotterdam.

Well let's say you're right - they figure out some trains may contain enemy soldiers, so they shut down all of them. Naturally, use the literal WARM BODIES OF YOUR OWN CITIZENS AS A FUCKING ROADBLOCK.

Then the Russians, already inside your territory, hit the brakes - disembark - and start stealing cars, holing up in houses, looting supplies from shops or whatever the fuck.

1) Confused train passengers, who you tried to use as a literal roadblock have disembarked and are now wandering the streets, or local countryside.

2) Hundreds of Russian soldiers, also disembarked, now wandering the streets or local countryside.

3) Your own soldiers, who now have to find all of these people. If they are civilians, they will have no fucking idea what's going on. If they are Russians, they are heavily armed, combat ready and in the middle of an invasion - and if you approach, they might turn you and your entire squad into swiss cheese.

Explain the plan here, chief, we're all counting on you.

 

[Doctor Love]

And what would 3 carriages of Russian soldiers actually achieve, even assuming that nobody notices 250 Slavs with violin cases who don't have tickets and who have somehow turned off the CCTV? You shoot the president? Congratulations on your coup. There are now tanks surrounding the building and ICBMs on their way to Moscow.

Well so far, all you've suggested is "use your own civilians to pile the railway, hoping that they will slow the Russian advance with their bodies"

 

[Bloodthirsty Nosenigger]

No, it's for a single train among all of those to be quietly filled with Russian soldiers.

Your harebrained schemes get more idiotic with every post you make, and yet you wonder why nobody's taking you seriously?

Okay, now you've moved the goalpoasts from somehow sneaking entire divisions across the border of a warzone, to a more modest "single train".
What's the next step of your masterplan, occupying a capitol city with a single infantry company, with nothing to supply them but the local ALDI, and hoping that'll force the enemy to surrender?

Napoleon marched the Grande Armee all the way into Moscow, how well did that one work out for him?
But sure, a few dozen men of light infantry will do the trick.

Go be retarded somewhere else.

 

[Spunt]

Well let's say you're right - they figure out some trains may contain enemy soldiers, so they shut down all of them. Naturally, use the literal WARM BODIES OF YOUR OWN CITIZENS AS A FUCKING ROADBLOCK.

Then the Russians, already inside your territory, hit the brakes - disembark - and start stealing cars, holing up in houses, looting supplies from shops or whatever the fuck.

1) Confused train passengers, who you tried to use as a literal roadblock have disembarked and are now wandering the streets, or local countryside.

2) Hundreds of Russian soldiers, also disembarked, now wandering the streets or local countryside.

3) Your own soldiers, who now have to find all of these people. If they are civilians, they will have no fucking idea what's going on. If they are Russians, they are heavily armed, combat ready and in the middle of an invasion - and if you approach, they might turn you and your entire squad into swiss cheese.

Explain the plan here, chief, we're all counting on you.

OK, let me show you a diagram:

(point A)CHEEKI BREEKI EXPRESS======red signal======Halted train====(point B)

Explain how you move the train from point A to point B.

Bear in mind this is likely to happen within a few miles of the border.


EDIT: Wouldn't a paradrop achieve the same thing except be about 75% less retarded? And again, you have a platoon of Russian soldiers in Warsaw. Congratulations. Now how do you conquer the entire fucking country without them all being killed and/or without starting World War 3?

 

[Doctor Love]

Your harebrained schemes get more idiotic with every post you make, and yet you wonder why nobody's taking you seriously?

Okay, now you've moved the goalpoasts from somehow sneaking entire divisions across the border of a warzone, to a more modest "single train".
What's the next step of your masterplan, occupying a capitol city with a single infantry company, with nothing to supply them but the local ALDI, and hoping that'll force the enemy to surrender?

Napoleon marched the Grande Armee all the way into Moscow, how well did that one work out for him?
But sure, a few dozen men of light infantry will do the trick.

Go be retarded somewhere else.

Okay, back to ten trains. Does it actually matter since we clearly don't have any plans for any kind of invasion which isn't "march directly across the border following a pre-written path which NATO has planned for"

Ten trains - each completely filled up - do we even have anything currently looking at it? Who would be the ones to actually respond? Do we have any means of defending against this, or are you going to miss the point entirely and suggest that "anything except the exact plan I have in mind is completely impossible"


The point is - Russia could, easily, using what they currently have, launch coup d'etats against European countries without the need for directly confronting them. Infact, they could just bully them with stern glances and the idea that those 500,000 troops could come into Europe if they don't give in to some demands.

And our governments - get this - will probably give in to those demands. They are no more serious than the demands Germany has given other EU countries, like, "take in more refugees, bigot!" - what's a paltry Russian "get rid of the American bases, and stop with the gay shit"

OK, let me show you a diagram:

(point A)CHEEKI BREEKI EXPRESS======red signal======Halted train====(point B)

Explain how you move the train from point A to point B.

Bear in mind this is likely to happen within a few miles of the border.

So within a few miles - keep going until you literally ram up against the obstacle. Hit the breaks beforehand for a softer landing. Now you are able to disembark, and you have plenty of civilians to hold hostage. Job done!

 

[Spunt]

So within a few miles - keep going until you literally ram up against the obstacle. Hit the breaks beforehand for a softer landing. Now you are able to disembark, and you have plenty of civilians to hold hostage. Job done!

OK, you now have a gang of 150 state-sponsored terrorists holding civilians hostage in the Polish countryside. What's next in your master plan, Rommelski?

 

[blur]

No, it's for a single train among all of those to be quietly filled with Russian soldiers.

In or out of uniform, maybe it just continues onward on a clear line - who would make that call?

Which is more likely, someone says "uh there's a train which isn't listed on the timetable. Maybe it's a timetable error" or "Wow, there's a train which isn't listed on the timetable. Boy, I bet it's full of Russian soldiers who are headed to Warsaw with guns. I should use my authority, as a ticket inspector, to call in a fucking airstrike because this TRAIN WASN'T LISTED CORRECTLY"

Here's one even better! They hijack an empty train, or have men inside the stations who - get this - lock two or three of the carriages at the back of a normal civilian train. The rest of the train continues as normal, and unless some of the Russian soldiers start waving their guns out of the window and declaring their intent to the locals, nobody would fucking notice until the train doors click open, in the middle of Warsaw, and around 250 heavily armed Russians march towards the President's house.



I have no idea why you're sperging about specifics without addressing the overarching theme. If the president called for a surrender, and I am being really nice and choosing Poland, would the rest of NATO and the EU agree or disagree?

Why do the russians even need to go into Europe before it is a scrap heap? They could just arm migrants and existing terrorist groups and let them burn the countries down.

 

[Spunt]

"Get rid of the gay shit, and stop threatening us with American weapons at the border"

Poland, which famously loves gay shit and loves American weapons, facing hundreds of civilians at risk and the risk of a full invasion by Russia, now with the heat turned up on them, would absolutely say "Execute them all for all I care, I absolutely adore black cock and I will suck one live on TV, for all my constituents to see!"

Then, of course, sending a fleet of American A10 warthogs to destroy all the trains in the entire country, shredding them like Omniman with his son's face.

All that would achieve would be justification for threatening Russian with EVEN MORE American weapons at the border, given that a gang of idiots just attempted the world's most retarded invasion.

Let me tell you what would happen. The train full of hostages is surrounded by Polish and American special forces. Trump 2024 calls up Putin and demands to know why the fuck there's been a border incursion by 150 morons and why he shouldn't scramble the B52s right now (they have already been scrambled). Putin tells Trump that they were deserters and orders them to surrender. They get on a plane back to St. Petersburg that undergoes a Special Disassembly Operation over the Baltic. The end.