Private/Direct Messages Chain Spam Issue

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Null said:
It's a discussion forum. This is not an issue. There's multiple off-topic boards and I'd like to see those grow so the site has some stability and activity even if we're in a slump content wise.

Edit: I think that if people feel they can't talk conversationally on the main off-topic boards, I'm doing something really wrong and I'd like to see how it can be loosened up.
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reptile baht spaniard rid said:
The two reasons I see that people go to DM chains, beyond "it's not publicly available to the Internet at large" are:
  • They want to hide from specific users who annoy them or shit up their threads or whatever (think A&H autists hiding from HHH or similar)
  • They want to indirectly avoid moderation
I'm not sure those can easily be fixed, except perhaps by a new non-Internet public board that members can see, but OPs are basically mods in their own thread
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Sometimes people want to share things they don't necessarily want to share with the world - not cringe but not something they necessarily want to blast to 8000 people, especially not 8000 retards always looking to fight or joke or collect data points - but want a range of input (so, not just a 1:1 or even 1:10). I'm in one group that is all or mostly women afaik, and some of them have shared semi-personal things (medical issues, asked for advice on women-specific things, shared the loss of a person or pet, etc.) as well as just random things. It's not on a specific topic, but it's also not 75 different conversations and shit posting that you get in a random thread. There's also consistency of people engaging so some sense of historic knowledge and interest.

It just gives the opportunity for manageable and usually useful input on things that don't work so well on a public board, where participants don't generally argue, even if they might clash or disagree at times elsewhere on the site. People are not over-sharing, but there's a respect so input is usually thoughtful and not drowned out by randomness.
 
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Kalsarinännit said:
True, so maybe the solution would be discouraging halals on users who haven’t done something egregious. I suspect that people only dox other users in the first place to “bring a kill to master”, so to speak.

Regardless, that’s the issue. Talking about your interests can get you doxed.
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That doesn't work. If you dox yourself being a fucking retard, I can't put the genie back in the bottle, and if I tried, it'd just promote off-site splinters and Discord groups to spring up. You have to just be less fucking stupid.
 
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Null said:
If you're in a big DM you actually value, I'd like people to move it to a thread, and if there's some reason why that's not viable I'd be interested in hearing it.
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I'm only in one large DM chain. I didn't start it, don't recall who invited me, but it's on a specific topic and useful enough I stick around. The reason it might suffer if it were a thread is because whoever created it did so to have a conversation on a particular contentious topic without those taking the adverse position piling in. If it were a thread it would require more mod policing to sort out all the infantile squabbling that resulted.

Now it is has a massive list of participants few of which actually post. I don't know if they're just lurking, they ignore it or just don't visit the site. Could likely be have far fewer participants than it has - perhaps some kind of pruning approach to DM chains of people who aren't participating.

The recurrent suggestions in this thread about Discord, it seems to me not going to work even if we wanted to (which I don't). Discord tends to trigger phone verifications if you create or use an account via a VPN. So there's pressure to associate it with your real identity. Which is bad.

The thing that Discord offers is easy creation of servers and rooms for specific topics which can be an analogue for DMs and invites can also be restricted to the owner. Maybe some alternative to Discord itself like Matrix could serve the same purpose. But it's (probably) impossible to mod, for good or for ill. Unless there's some way of mandating access to certain accounts for mods to use. The essence of all this though is it's a competing purpose. The forum is the forum but some people want a more private place sometimes that's just their friends. Does KF want to meet that need?
 
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Thank fucking God. I have no idea why I was added to some of the DMs I was. Particularly the unironic gay furry ERP when I have made it disgustingly and annoyingly clear that I am a straight vanilla woman and then to add my friends too that had no interest in that shit.

I'd still like the DM fixed that no one else but the person who started the DM can add others.
 
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Null said:
That doesn't work. If you dox yourself being a fucking retard, I can't put the genie back in the bottle, and if I tried, it'd just promote off-site splinters and Discord groups to spring up. You have to just be less fucking stupid.
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Ok then. I don’t consider talking about my interests “being a fucking retard”, but if you do, then it is what it is, and people will probably avoid being conversational in off-topic threads.
 
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A perfect solution for this doesn't have to be found right now, and it might not be known if a solution is good or not until it's been tried for a while. Why not just see how Null's "report people who abuse this" impacts things going forward to start with?

I don't think I've ever heard anybody say that DM chains are bad until this thread. Now that more of us know it's a problem and there's emerging agreement on how to handle them, maybe we'll handle this ourselves just by adopting good practice. Same way we do things like "don't interfere with the cows" and "don't PL".
 
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I'm sad because I made an informative post about the two nearly-identical Latin words for crab in The Crab Shack, but I've been unable to locate the post since because the conversation is so long.
 
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To the greater points @Null brought up, I think that there is some appeal of DM’s that posting and chat differ in, or else people wouldn’t engage in these large chains, whether functional or psychological/social or (probably) both.

I agree that there is the issue of people assuming and feeling that DM’s are more private and powerleveling more as a result, but I also agree with the other users that this should and seems to be a self-resolving issue. For example, the Catler DM chains being exposed and the resultant bans. I like to think that the Farms community is self-moderating enough so that any egregious offenses outside of the public eye will be exposed similarly.

A proposed solution is to have a thread (or many threads for each DM, I don’t know how many there are or how active), like the Telegram Dox Thread, where we can post the more autistic things that users post in the various DM’s. This way, we can nip any sus behavior in the bud, chronicle lore over time, and keep an eye on the potential lolcows that always happen to sprout from places like private messages for some reason. This could potentially mitigate both the issues of PLing in DM’s and increasing visible site traffic during downtimes.

Ultimately, though, the decision to restrict DM’s for site benefit versus user benefit (self-regulating) is gonna be an admin decision and only one you can make big dawg.
 
Gargamel said:
you're calling me a faggot?
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yes

Kalsarinännit said:
Ok then. I don’t consider talking about my interests “being a fucking retard”, but if you do, then it is what it is, and people will probably avoid being conversational in off-topic threads.
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Yes but you're ignoring my point. If your niche interest is so self-identifying, talking about it in KF-adjacent whatever is not any further security. If you get doxed you still get doxed. Trying to hide this is just literally impossible and will encourage people off-site where I have no control.
 
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Honka Honka Burning Love said:
I think this is less of a "You" issue and more of a "If i power level about things I like too much some autistic sperg might be able to cross reference things to reveal more about my power level."

I've had that thought a few times and waffle on posting certain things about a subject, it's probably retard level autism to think that way...buuuut this is the Kiwi Farms.

There is also sometimes an issue of people being really fucking Blackpilled about shit and some threads do devolve into bitching about how terrible something is, which is fine by me I just stop going to those threads :P
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That's how I think too tbh. I'm not worried about sharing embarrassing or degenerate things, because I don't do that shit. But there have been casual conversation threads that I wanted to partake in, but eventually decided not to because I was worried I might be giving enough clues that I could get doxed, especially in niche interests.

Yeah, there's always a risk someone in your DM or profile could leak whatever you said but at least it's a much lesser chance, and if it does happen, you'll know who did it.
 
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