The Elder Scrolls

[Puff]

Cheesing is half the point. The reason that the diamond quest was the introductory one and designed like a trap was to teach you that the goal is to get the X done, not that you have to also have to do A, then B, all through W in order to even be let to attempt X like Oblivion and later would force you.

I'm just trying to get the Dwemer artifacts in the third (?) mission without just bludgeoning the thief to death. I suppose I could just get different artifacts like I did with the diamond, but I really want the thief to not have them anymore in addition to completing the quest. Probably some roundabout way to get them, but no info comes out even when you charm him to 100 disposition.

 

[xXx: State of the Union]

I'm trying to play Arena for the first time ever and like...this game blows.

I get that it was originally just supposed to be like an Arena fighter before they changed it to a dungeon crawler, but I don't get the appeal of this fucking game. Every quest that isn't a main quest is just "take this guy/object to the other side of town", or in the case of palaces it's like "take this thing to another town, but don't sleep cause someone will come and kill you"

And then like, I'm trying to play a Battlemage, but I'm guessing that the only viable classes are warriors because even though I make my own spells I run out of magic in what feels like 3 seconds and then I need to wait 8 hours after every battle to replenish my magicka but then some asshole comes and attacks me before I can. If I buy potions at 75 gold each, they only seem to restore 25 pts at a time so they're absolutely worthless. And before you say anything, I'm looking for elevated platforms but I haven't seen hardly any since the Prison. (I'm at the ice fortress now).

I read some guide that told me how I should be making spells, so is the guide telling me to make spells that are just too powerful for no reason? I have this one spell that costs like 46 magicka that does 10-20 damage per level and now I'm at level 5, but I only have 158 magicka even though I'm at 90 INT so I get around 3 uses (if I don't use shield or heal) before I need to rest again.

Still, what was the fucking appeal of this game? Was it actually popular at all? I can't believe CRPG's were in such a dire state that this was considered passable. Or do I just not get it because I was never a Dungeons and Dragons pen and paper guy?

 

[std::string]

Still, what was the fucking appeal of this game? Was it actually popular at all?

Honestly I don't even remember people talking about it or seeing it in stores. The people I played MUDs with played the shit out of Daggerfall when it came out though.

So no I don't think it was that popular.

 

[xXx: State of the Union]

Yeah, I must have just heard some revisionist Bethesda history that made it sound more popular than it is.

The funniest thing is that I'm playing it because I saw some lorefags sperging out about how Skyrim sucks because things in it don't match up with the Arena depiction, and I'm realizing that none of these people must have played this fucking game and are going off wikis or something cause like...everything is obviously just randomly generated and had little to no thought put into it.

It's clearly a Metal Gear situation where you're supposed to ignore everything that doesn't show up past the third game but these fags are so autistic they're arguing for a game they clearly haven't played.

 

[std::string]

The funniest thing is that I'm playing it because I saw some lorefags sperging out about how Skyrim sucks because things in it don't match up with the Arena depiction, and I'm realizing that none of these people must have played this fucking game and are going off wikis or something cause like...everything is obviously just randomly generated and had little to no thought put into it.

Well one thing it has going for it is that the dungeons are better designed than Daggerfall's meth-fueled ant nests.

That's about it though. And no there is no cohesion to TES lore and that's canon so I'm not sure what they're talking about.

 

[Friendly Primarina]

I'm trying to play Arena for the first time ever and like...this game blows.

*snip*

Exactly my experience with Arena. I don't remember which class I picked, only that it was Magicka-focused because I like magic characters. After save-scumming through the first dungeon for what felt like hours, I ending up at some random town in High Rock. I wanted to join the Mages' Guild and make some powerful spells, but they were closed and I couldn't find a way to pass time. This was the point at which I noped out and never looked back. Absolute garbage.

Despite what people will tell you, 1994 was not the dark ages of video games. Video games had already been around for more than a decade at that point. Doom had been out for two years, and Hexen and Quake were just around the corner. Feature creep or not, people know how to make video games in 1994.

Even if you excuse Arena being fundamentally broken as inexperienced developers (they weren't) trying something new (maybe), that's no reason to put Arena on a pedestal. Super Mario Bros. and Sonic 1 are a pain to play compared to later entries, but they are at least playable. Rather than respecting Arena for starting The Elder Scrolls series, people should be scratching their heads wondering how such a successful franchise spawned in spite of a broken game like Arena.

Daggerfall is broken too, but it's (very arguably) tolerable because you can at lest see the vision behind it. Arena had no vision. It's a bunch of fantasy medieval claptrap and tabletop RPG elements cobbled together in five minutes.

 

[Breadbassket]

Still, what was the fucking appeal of this game? Was it actually popular at all? I can't believe CRPG's were in such a dire state that this was considered passable. Or do I just not get it because I was never a Dungeons and Dragons pen and paper guy?

To my understanding when Arena came out CRPGs taking inspiration from D&D were still kind of in their "figuring things out" phase.

Bethesda took inspiration from the 1992 title Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss and an obscure game called Legends of Valour.

You can get an idea of how easy they were to pick up and play by modern standards from these screenshots:

 

[Asian tech support]

Rather than respecting Arena for starting The Elder Scrolls series, people should be scratching their heads wondering how such a successful franchise spawned in spite of a broken game like Arena.

To my understanding when Arena came out CRPGs taking inspiration from D&D were still kind of in their "figuring things out" phase.

Might be totally off base with this one but I'd guess that it was a Star Trek type situation; there was at least some demand but not that much selection to choose from, and thirsty nerds glommed on to Arena just because it was in the right place at the right time and hit enough notes.

 

[std::string]

Daggerfall is broken too, but it's (very arguably) tolerable because you can at lest see the vision behind it. Arena had no vision. It's a bunch of fantasy medieval claptrap and tabletop RPG elements cobbled together in five minutes.

It's funny cause when Daggerfall came out everyone treated it like a medieval asshole simulator. Just traveling through different regions insulting peasants and stealing shit from stores and people's houses for no reason. This was the true Daggerfall experience (and very different from other games at the time.)

And now people go back to play Daggerfall for the lore, which literally nobody cared about in 1996.

 

[Pierre D'Olnique]

Older games assumed you had the printed manual to guide you through their incomprehensible UIs and obtuse mechanics. Don't think Arena was any different. Tutorial levels were a concept that appeared much later.

 

[xXx: State of the Union]

Nah, I don't have a problem understanding the UI. And I'm pretty sure I "get" the mechanic, it is just stupid as fuck and sucks ass.

I don't play DnD, but it just reeks of "this is some shit we stole from DnD that doesn't translate into the style of game we are making at all"

No wonder Bethesda was going out of business before Morrowind.

 

[Friendly Primarina]

Older games assumed you had the printed manual to guide you through their incomprehensible UIs and obtuse mechanics. Don't think Arena was any different. Tutorial levels were a concept that appeared much later.

The manual for Arena looked more like a strategy guide. Daggerfall's was just like this IIRC.

 

[biozeminadae1]

Nah, I don't have a problem understanding the UI. And I'm pretty sure I "get" the mechanic, it is just stupid as fuck and sucks ass.

I don't play DnD, but it just reeks of "this is some shit we stole from DnD that doesn't translate into the style of game we are making at all"

No wonder Bethesda was going out of business before Morrowind.

TES is not like D&D at all. Also, I think this type of point was argued before in the thread?

 

[xXx: State of the Union]

TES is not like D&D at all.

OMG, I'm sorry, "Pen and Paper RPG"

Either way, Arena is a mess and feels like it came from something that is certainly not "video games".

 

[Lone Wandering Courier]

OMG, I'm sorry, "Pen and Paper RPG"

Either way, Arena is a mess and feels like it came from something that is certainly not "video games".

I feel like you can say that about a lot of TruRPGs(TM) and that includes the Morrowind which is the one 3d bethesda game TruRPGers(TM) jerk off

 

[xXx: State of the Union]

I feel like you can say that about a lot of TruRPGs(TM) and that includes the Morrowind which is the one 3d bethesda game TruRPGers(TM) jerk off

I think the biggest thing with Arena is just these respawning enemies while I wait. It's like they want the "resting" mechanics of a PnP RPG but then they want respawning enemies of a video game and the shit don't jive at all.

I have my issues with Morrowind and its dice rolling hits, but I don't remember any stupid shit like respawning enemies during rest. In fact, I'm replaying it for the first time in like 15 years now just because I think I might appreciate it more after the clusterfuck that was my 8 hours with Arena.

 

[Gog & Magog]

I can't wait to stalk, kill, and loot the corpses of poor peasants in Elder Scrolls 6: Skyrim 2 (tm).

 

[Breadbassket]

Some Youtuber made an album with Skyrim characters that parodies the band Weezer.

To get an idea of what to expect, Buddy Holly was made into a song praising the deity Talos.

 

[#1 Hot Sauce of Kiwi Farm]

I think the biggest thing with Arena is just these respawning enemies while I wait. It's like they want the "resting" mechanics of a PnP RPG but then they want respawning enemies of a video game and the shit don't jive at all.

I have my issues with Morrowind and its dice rolling hits, but I don't remember any stupid shit like respawning enemies during rest. In fact, I'm replaying it for the first time in like 15 years now just because I think I might appreciate it more after the clusterfuck that was my 8 hours with Arena.

Dice rolling hit are a none issue if you make at least a somewhat decent build. If not the game is so busted you can just abuse it in so many different ways like every others ES game. ES games are only hard when you make challenge or rp builds that are purposely bad, but meme builds are still not an issue in Skyrim as that game is made for babies. Still a fun game though if you turn off your brain and ignore the just horrendous writing.

 

[xXx: State of the Union]

You're assuming my issue with dice rolls is that they make the game "hard".

They don't, they make the game tedious and not fun. Which Arena is to a T.

It's not as bad in Morrowind, but it's still a dumb design when the combat expects you to be somewhat accurate in real time as well as in dice rolls. (although I'll concede this isn't as much of an issue for me now that I'm playing Morrowind on PC as it was when I played it on Xbox)