Plagued /r/TNOmod and the Reddit HOI4 modding community - When a subreddit for a video game mod turns to utter insanity

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Apparently no one locks documents over there. As someone that follows the TNO drama on 4chan (where a lot of devs post) it's pretty obvious that they have no opsec at all.
Another example from 4chan: the 9th (?) Moskowien proposal. No, that's not a joke number. And yes, they flushed down thousands of hours of work for this. Allegedly, because the old lead got suspended.
People started to talk about a new rework several months ago. Then all of a sudden, someone claiming to be a dev posted it in the thread. So the devs obviously just make their things public and then leave them that way forever since obviously the original author didn't randomly flip and leak it there months after the fact. Funny thing though: you don't see this with any other mods. It's only TNO. Most people would feel bad over leaking something their friends made. That's just basic human decency. TNO though? Yeah no one seems to care. Really goes to show how people feel about each other over there.
If a single kb of data leaked back in the day Panzer would lock that shit down. All activities would cease and there would be an internal purge, several contributors and writers would lose their roles temporarily, some permanently. This was a big reason why development was constantly delayed, yet TNO still put out content.

I think I realize why. Because under Panzer, the goal at the end of the day was to release a mod. They actually wanted to put this thing out there. And no one else wanted TNO to be a thing more than Panzer, so he knew how to lean on them and get results. This does not seem to be the case with TNO today. TNO today isn't a mod in development but a writing project where amateur writers and "idea guys" engage in pissing contests to get their own ideas implemented. None of them have the drive or passion Panzer had, despite being a massive lib faggot he still ran a tight ship.
 
Yes, China has been 'first' to a lot of technologies but were always slower to iterate or innovate on them than the people who those technologies were exported to. Fire Lances were just weaponized fire works and the furthest the Chinese built on that were primitive hand cannons before the Portuguese introduced the arquebus.
TLDR they had a much bigger pool of proverbial/literal monkeys throwing shit at the wall to see if anything stuck, all contained within their general empire sphere and for longer. However due to the inbuilt stagnancy of keeping the empire halfway together for long periods of time and resilient enough to reform after the latest apocalyptic collapse, and general logistical issues typical to the period which ensured any lingering considerations of throwing resources at a tech with potential were quickly snuffed out by simply remembering "no wait nvm we have like six gorillion disposable peasants to get the same and better results"

Once these techs filtered through to nations in Europe and The Middle East with far more head in the game when it came to seeking as much edge over their immediate enemies as possible and far less restraint when it came to trying out new shit with potential, given how much easier it was for Duke Saurkrauterlinger Von Markutzenstein to outfit his royal army of over seventeen semi-reliable mercenaries with the latest fancy sounding tech in order to even the odds against his arch rival for the duchy, his distant cousin/sister/daughter/wife-papally-ordained-pegger Countess HildurgenburgNfurt and her endless horde of almost 40 peasants wielding recently developed handgonnes she acquired by giving a royal blumpkin to the local elector horse, than for Celestial Emperor HoLeeFuk to commission his court to begin the century long endeavour of sharpening the fifty million pointy sticks that formed the Imperial Armory

Its a bit like how scientific and mathematical principals which were first ooga-booga'd down by the ancient egyptians and greeks and pajeets only really became worth a damn when put into practice thousands of years later by the euro empires and their spinoffs. Sure the ancients could claim "first" but they were in zero position to truly capitalise on these discoveries due to the nature of their societies and the level of advancement they were at
 
Someone made a mod restoring the old TWR.

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Here with another unneeded AAR. Japan I remember also not being as bad . They fucked it up again. I got Takagi like last time though this time I was shooting for him to just compare to my run on original TNO. They at least cleaned up some unfinished loc so that's good. The only bad is they have a government collapse mechanic. I will skip around here but its based off three variables which I only know now since as a modder myself I went digging in their files.

Basically you got a variable for PM power, for public support, and support in the house of peers. The only issue is they do not tell you about either btw. I was just starting and almost immediately it puts me on the gameover screen where it says "the end" and offers to put me on arcade mode. I kept playing as normal but you keep getting an event on how unstable your government is. Nothing comes of this either. You get no debuff other then this annoying event firing monthly. I think what the problem is the modifiers I was supposed to hit were hidden under layers to the parliament gui and minigame. I can never understand why people love these retarded minigames.
 
I feel somewhat bad for Panzer, yeah he's a wishy washy retard whose real goal was a job at Paradox, most likely. But he did actually get content out for TNO, and his version of TNO is the one people still talk about to this day, rather than the gray mush that it's being slowly morphed into.

Then again, doing all this work only to have his project AND his dream job hijacked by a tranny janny who basically invaded the dev team is eternally hilarious.
 
MINI AAR
ORDAZ'S MEXICO
As you all know, I said that I was going to play Ordaz's path in TNO's Mexico. After playing his path, I can safely say that it is not worth it and has very little unique content. Without further ado, I will focus only on said unique content, as well about some details about his OTL life that are worthy of mention.

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After the initial focus tree, we have to pick who will we court in our quest to get the olympic nomination, Ordaz (and Madrazo) open up as options when we pick the americans.

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The dynamic for the pro-USA three is the same as the pro-jap one. We follow the tree, get scripted events, try to balance proposal strenght with the opinion of our chosen candidate, and so on.

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A perfect Mexiconomy can be easily achieved by spamming the "build ejidos" decision, as this gives you +25 pp while only costing 5, and can be used again every 4 months (I recommend using the decision on very poor/useless areas, like Yucatán, Southeast, or Southwest, as it also causes a loss in farming efficiency).

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Kabuki time, Ordaz edition, we will automatically go with the left side of the tree (previously posted in my last AAR).

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As with Salinas, we will interact with the pp sinks that are in the decisions, but the way we get Ordaz instead of Madrazo is by reducing the unity of the pact. Above 80 gives us Madrazo, under 20 gives us Ordaz.

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After Kabuki, we get Ordaz, and Salinas has his influence over the party greatly reduced.

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IRL, both Ordaz and Mateos were good friends, which is examplified by the tone of the events. Very close and personal, specially when compared to the event where we pick Salinas.

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Monkeyface here is a strike-buster and american ally, almost at OTL levels, might I say. His presidency will revolve around making Mexico more secure for the PRI and expanding the DFS (mexican FBI).

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After having 80 in every category of the El Tapado GUI (the post-Kabuki tree is the exact same for all three paths, so I won't include it again), we will get these two events, which talk about how everyone loves the candidate that we chose, and will make things far easier going forward.

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Finally, we have our man, Gustavo Díaz Ordaz. He was born as lower-middle class kid from Puebla, in central Mexico, his father being part of the pre-revolutionary mexican goverment in his local town. Due to this, he was a rather dark horse candidate, but also one that had experience in all the levels of mexican governance, climbing the ladder from local bureaucrat, to deputy from the state of Puebla, to senator for that same state, to Secretary of the Interior under Mateos, to finally President of Mexico from 1964 until 1970, election that he won with 90% of the vote. OTL, he commited the Tlatelolco Massacre, which was the goverment's response to the protests of 68, tl;dr he used lethal force aganist commie and hippie students, causing the deaths of around 300 hundred of them. Such event will also make its appearance whenever Mexico gets full content (soon+2 weeks).

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After Ordaz's inaguration, we get this focus tree, which will last for around one year, and deals with oil, prepartion for the Olympics, and relationship with the americans.

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Ordaz is a deeply authoritarian man, who desires to have almost total control over the mexican state and to ensure the ssupremacy of the PRI at all costs, and is willing to use blackmail and the goverment's security forces to achieve that.

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One of the examples is this event, which allows us to send the army to put down the paesants.

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Meanwhile, ex-president Mateos is not feeling so well, having been diagnosed with an untreatable cancer, just like OTL.

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Madrazo has been sidelined, with one of Ordaz's yes men and ex-ally of his assuming his position of president of the PRI.

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As Mateo's health worsens, so does the integrity of the mexican state, with many guerrillas and anti-goverment militias making their move.

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Ordaz's desperation increases, as does his paranoia. Meanwhile, Luis Echeverría, Secretary of the Interior takes advantage of the situation to try and secure his candidacy (and, in OTL, his future presidency), sidelining the rival secretaries. He was also one of the intellectual authors of Tlatelolco.

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Ordaz has a brief moment of sanity.

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Endscreen
 

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OTL, he commited the Tlatelolco Massacre, which was the goverment's response to the protests of 68, tl;dr he used lethal force aganist commie and hippie students, causing the deaths of around 300 hundred of them. Such event will also make its appearance whenever Mexico gets full content (soon+2 weeks).
I took a quick glance at Ordaz Wiki page and everything I saw in TNO was just blatantly copypasted from OTL, it's so uninspired it's unreal. I don't know whether they are just boring or they are afraid of adding original ideas due to realismfags shitting on everything unique
 
I took a quick glance at Ordaz Wiki page and everything I saw in TNO was just blatantly copypasted from OTL, it's so uninspired it's unreal. I don't know whether they are just boring or they are afraid of adding original ideas due to realismfags shitting on everything unique
It could be a variety of factors. The mad quest for realismus is one, their lack of originality is another one, as well as their dislike for the US (as Ordaz was pro-american OTL, is pro-american here too, and thus, must be "the bad guy"). The 1968 protests themselves shouldn't even be a thing, as they only took place due to the fact that marxists agents or marxist sympathizers were infiltrating european and american academia at the time, which naturally spread to other nearby countries. You can try to brainwash a teenager into becoming a free love hippie when the second superpower of the world is selling that a "utopia of tolerance" is just around the corner and skipping class makes it arrieve faster. You can't do the same when the superpowers are either racist japs or racist huns.

It's the exact same thing that they did with JFK and Nixon. JFK got clapped IRL, he has to get clapped here, Nixon got Watergate'd IRL, he has to get Watergate'd here. The most creativity they've shown is with Guangdong, and that's because none of the people there were even politicians IRL
 
It could be a variety of factors. The mad quest for realismus is one, their lack of originality is another one, as well as their dislike for the US (as Ordaz was pro-american OTL, is pro-american here too, and thus, must be "the bad guy"). The 1968 protests themselves shouldn't even be a thing, as they only took place due to the fact that marxists agents or marxist sympathizers were infiltrating european and american academia at the time, which naturally spread to other nearby countries. You can try to brainwash a teenager into becoming a free love hippie when the second superpower of the world is selling that a "utopia of tolerance" is just around the corner and skipping class makes it arrieve faster. You can't do the same when the superpowers are either racist japs or racist huns.

It's the exact same thing that they did with JFK and Nixon. JFK got clapped IRL, he has to get clapped here, Nixon got Watergate'd IRL, he has to get Watergate'd here. The most creativity they've shown is with Guangdong, and that's because none of the people there were even politicians IRL
Real quick on the American stuff. Its always been an issue with TNO. Even Panzer TNO according to the ping poof himself said that America is only the good guy since they are fighting literal Nazis but American imperialism bad or something (like why OFN mandates collapse a lot. That its kind of funny that he inadvertently created NATO-wave and a new form of American jingoism since surprise you can even get the communists to support your nation if you are fighting people who eat babies for breakfast as your game portrays.

I also wanted to talk about that the hippie stuff too on not just America but Italy and Germany too. It's an issue on all two things since they would have to address the elephant in the room. The new left was created out of de-Stalinization done by Soviet officials AND Soviet spies and agitators infecting the liberal movements in the west especially colleges. you handled the American side rather well on your comment but an issue I have is from my run of Germany and Japan is there are students there too but why?

They just assume that every college kid is an ungrateful brat that suddenly turns into a hyper liberal once they touch a campuses magic soil when even today there is more than enough proof that a lot of people are pretty normal when going to colleges but quite literally get groomed into retarded ideologies since its teenagers left alone with now parental supervision anymore. There's not even a history of liberalism like in America for this. Germany and Italy both crushed and got so many Ws in WW2 there is no reason why for example in Germany the Red Army Faction should even exist. They try to portray this for why reformist Speer and Scorza has support from students who want le democracy but again how and why? The Germans and Italians would make sure academia is staffed with their fucking yesmen. If you want to show something like Tiananmen square IIRC that happened due to good relations with the west some Chinese saw how shit was better in the west and wanted that back at home. something you won't get in the mod's self-admitted steel curtain as media and cultural exchange between the spheres are non existent.

Then you get to Japan who of all the axis powers they can just legit become a normal conservative democracy like IRL under Takagi. Even if you don't they do not have a single student movement. Do the mongoloids just not care about heckin wholesome democracy like the civilized Yuros to protest for it like in Germany? That aside I think the true root is just being lazy as even someone who can ideas guy a lot, I realize my lazy ass would probably just sorta make a path and write it to that guy's IRL views and history. Especially if I did not care for it which may very well be how TNO writers feel. People who write creative stories usually do it since they have a story they are passionate about or a really good idea. Boring stories like TNO Mexico usually comes from mod corporate culture where they are told Mexico needs content so it's off to Wikipedia and to turn that article of a politician into a focus tree.
 
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I don't know if there's any deeper meaning behind the focus on Cyprus, but fun fact: the Ottoman invasion of Cyprus in 1570 was encouraged by Joseph Nasi, a Jewish diplomat in the employ of the Porte, who with their approval had sponsored the resettlement of Jews in Tiberias.
That mod where Jesus annexes Germany through the focus "Gas Gas Gas" also had your country located in Cyprus if I remember right.
 
For anyone who keeps up with OWB, have they adapted anything from the shitty Fallout TV show? I hope they're not THAT retarded, tbh.
Late as shit but no, and it probably won't either. No one in the community on reddit at least seemed to want anything from the show added, I saw some suggestions that they could add in Vault Tec as a April fools event, but its really unlikely they add in anything from the show past maybe a reference or two.
That mod where Jesus annexes Germany through the focus "Gas Gas Gas" also had your country located in Cyprus if I remember right.
You can't just drop that factoid and not name the mod, that sounds like the best mod ever.
 
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MINI AAR
ORDAZ'S MEXICO
Thanks for the AAR! You did a good job this time around too. Some touches are nice like them taking into account real life friendships but overall I can't imagine how anyone would want to touch this twice especially since it seems really easy to cheese as you demonstrated. Found your comment later about how the protests shouldn't even be a thing because of the diminished Marxist influence in this timeline. Well no, actually, since somehow the fall of the USSR somehow has only made communism stronger with countries like America being able to elect communists by popular vote even in the more "realistic" reworks. Makes you think.
I took a quick glance at Ordaz Wiki page and everything I saw in TNO was just blatantly copypasted from OTL, it's so uninspired it's unreal.
Found the role in the Cuban Missile Crisis along with the protests to be the most egregious. A lot of that is just copied over wholesale. It's what happened in real life therefore it's realistic therefore it's the only acceptable outcome. Just removes the point of alternate history.
 
Depends on the game and depends on the modders; a lot of modding scenes are amazing and do genuinely remake or push beyond the boundaries of what the game or engine was originally envisioned as handling. Look at Medieval 2 Total War's modding scene: it's a nearly two decade-old game that is currently experiencing a golden age of modding with mechanics and even unit models that put what current day CA is doing to shame. I could give similar appraisals for Civ 4, Empire at War, Sins of a Solar Empire, Europa Universalis IV, and so on. I think the problem is discord, which seems uniquely capable of bringing out the worst in any sort of community and especially in collaborative projects.
To be fair, while I absolutely will support Corey and his team with all the advancements he's made with Thrawn's Revenge and Fall of the Republic, it's somewhat-known that they have the unofficial support of Petroglyph themselves when it comes to making Empire at War mods. The studio more or less petitions Disney every chance they get for permission to release their yearly update to the game to fix bugs and add new capabilities to the Alamo Engine. It's why you don't need to use LAA or the save defreezer utility anymore.
 
To be fair, while I absolutely will support Corey and his team with all the advancements he's made with Thrawn's Revenge and Fall of the Republic, it's somewhat-known that they have the unofficial support of Petroglyph themselves when it comes to making Empire at War mods. The studio more or less petitions Disney every chance they get for permission to release their yearly update to the game to fix bugs and add new capabilities to the Alamo Engine. It's why you don't need to use LAA or the save defreezer utility anymore.
True, modding capability often only goes so far as a studio's goodwill towards it, but I also don't think those updates would have managed to come around if it weren't for the community's persistence. When Thrawn's Revenge first started, back when it was just Imperial Civil War, Republic at War was considered the peak of EaW modding - now it's considered quaint and we have EaWX, AoTR, the Remake, and so on, and those were in the works before Petroglyph could get Disney permission to update it. Similar story with Kotor II's TSLRCM mod and Aspyr getting Disney's blessing to update its utility.

All that said I think it's a bit damning for HoI4 that the main updates to its utility and code to help with mod support are related to the GUI and focus trees and not, say, nukes, or diplomacy or espionage when TNO is its most influential mod.
 
Why do the Olympics even exist in TNO? Like I can understand the Big Three (Germany, Japan, USA) competeing, but what are the logistics with England and the Anglosphere. Last I checked in TNO Lore, the Dominions recognize the Queen in Canada as the rightful government, so are they sending an opposition team to beat the Collaborationist Anglos?

Not to mention the Olympics were history a almot entire French run operation with other leading members from the Benelux far as I know. These are all either puppet regimes and nations that literally don't exist anymore within the German diplomatic sphere, and I doubt they'd tolerate any Governments-in-exile sending athletes.
 
Why do the Olympics even exist in TNO? Like I can understand the Big Three (Germany, Japan, USA) competeing, but what are the logistics with England and the Anglosphere. Last I checked in TNO Lore, the Dominions recognize the Queen in Canada as the rightful government, so are they sending an opposition team to beat the Collaborationist Anglos?

Not to mention the Olympics were history a almot entire French run operation with other leading members from the Benelux far as I know. These are all either puppet regimes and nations that literally don't exist anymore within the German diplomatic sphere, and I doubt they'd tolerate any Governments-in-exile sending athletes.
Hitler used the 1936 Olympics very well for his propaganda purpouses, so I can see them continue to exist. England would most likely not be allowed to participate, maybe as the result of a compromise between the Pakt and the OFN. IIRC, the RKs to the east arern't really countries that exist, they are actually part of Germany that due to gameplay and administrative purpouses have been split off, but the ones to the west (except Burgundy) do exist as puppet regimes.

When they take place, I would say that it's the latin american nations, most OFN countries (Suriname/Exiled Netherlands most likely doesn't participate), China, Manchuria, Azad Hind (I put Azad Hind instead of India because they have the full support of the Sphere), Japan, Norway, Denmark, Italy, Iberia, Turkey, Ireland, France, Iran, Thailand and the non-aligned, non-anarchy, non-RK countries attending. There was a guy on the subreddit that did an autistic simulation about the Olympics in TNO
 
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