Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

Do you believe that this series will turn to shit?


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Is God/Heaven actually evil? The whole plotline of exterminations somehow staying super-secret reeks of scapegoating all of Heaven's problems towards Sera and all of the Exorcists. But then the worldbuilding is so weak that we don't even know if only Sera knew about the Exterminations outside Adam and the Exorcists, and this isn't even answered in the leaked episode that takes place entirely in Heaven minus a two-minute flashback, which would have been prime opportunity to show Heaven's wider reaction to the revelation that billions of Sinners have been killed through a secret yearly operation that's been going on for an unknown number of years.
Then what's the point of being God? In this universe and making all these rules nobody adheres to? And making God evil but not showing him? WHAT why would you do that? Even in fictional series like Lord of the Rings where there lore and stuff going on you still see the villain! What would be the point of having a villian you never see Viv?
Here's my answer to why Heaven and it's worldbuilding is the way it is:

Viv never really had much of a plan to what she wanted Heaven to be like. She at best had vague ideas on how Heaven would be contributed to the story, but it was never the main focus for the show; that was always Hell and the hotel.

But then once she got picked up by A24, that all changed. Maybe one of the higher-ups suggested she had to move up the pace. Maybe she felt having eight episodes per season meant that she didn't have a lot of wiggle room and maybe she was afraid that they were going to get only 2 seasons for Hazbin. For whatever the reason could be, instead of leaving Heaven as vague and mysterious or something to be explored later on in the show, it was now part of the plot for season 1. So whatever idea she had for Heaven at the time she had to show now.
 
Here's my answer to why Heaven and it's worldbuilding is the way it is:

Viv never really had much of a plan to what she wanted Heaven to be like. She at best had vague ideas on how Heaven would be contributed to the story, but it was never the main focus for the show; that was always Hell and the hotel.

But then once she got picked up by A24, that all changed. Maybe one of the higher-ups suggested she had to move up the pace. Maybe she felt having eight episodes per season meant that she didn't have a lot of wiggle room and maybe she was afraid that they were going to get only 2 seasons for Hazbin. For whatever the reason could be, instead of leaving Heaven as vague and mysterious or something to be explored later on in the show, it was now part of the plot for season 1. So whatever idea she had for Heaven at the time she had to show now.
I'm almost certain it was Viv's call and she thought she would only get 2 seasons tops, after all this is A24 we're talking about and they've basically always let creators and directors do just about whatever the fuck they want.

In fact, I think Viv thought Hazbin would be one and done (ignoring the fact that almost never happens these days), and I have some circumstantial evidence for this, one being how season 2 only got officially confirmed right before the show aired, additionally the VA recording of S2 only started after S1 aired. (But it's important to note that admittedly the SAG strikes was in this timeframe), but that makes me believe it was how the general plot to the final episode was leaked on 4chan such as how Sir Pentious goes off and sacrifices himself, but this leaker makes it out to be permeant and doesn't mention the fact he shows up in Heaven, or the final scene where Lute meets up with "Lilith", and these are the only two scenes right after the big finale song, featuring brief dialogue only from Pentious and Lute, so seem tacked on last minute as a result.

I'm not sure if the leaker mentioned when he saw the episode or not, but I'm inclined to believe that for the vast majority of S1's production, S1 was going to end with the big song at the end, and it's only in the last stretch of production when the show was internally greenlit for S2 was those final two scenes added to help setup more things for S2 now that it was definitely going to happen.
 
Thing is we don't really know anything about God in this series. For the longest time, Viv said she didn't want to portray God in her series and that the only Biblical characters she would have would be Lucifer and Lilith.

That obviously is not true anymore, and with the reveal of the Speaker of God in season 2 it seems like God will either be shown or at least mentioned heavily in the future. From the looks of it, God seems to be extremely hands-off and let the angels decide what they think is best. He wasn't even there to partake in the creation of Earth.
That is very irresponsible of him, no doubt she'll make him be a complete queer retard on the level of St Peter.
Then what's the point of being God? In this universe and making all these rules nobody adheres to? And making God evil but not showing him? WHAT why would you do that? Even in fictional series like Lord of the Rings where there lore and stuff going on you still see the villain! What would be the point of having a villian you never see Viv?
I'd say more - You have the "presence" of Eru Ilúvitar in the world of Arda (that is, LOTR). There is a discussion if the fall that killed Sméagol and eventually destroyed the ring was all in Arda's God own plan, alongside other things (that other LOTR nerds can argue better than I can). But indeed, having a villain who is never there and at the same time is irresponsible is... well, non existent?
I'm laughing so fucking hard at the "Stayed Gone" part doing both Alastor and Vox's voices, holy kek :story:
Someone should make timestamps, shit. So many fucking songs.
 
Here's my answer to why Heaven and it's worldbuilding is the way it is:

Viv never really had much of a plan to what she wanted Heaven to be like. She at best had vague ideas on how Heaven would be contributed to the story, but it was never the main focus for the show; that was always Hell and the hotel.

But then once she got picked up by A24, that all changed. Maybe one of the higher-ups suggested she had to move up the pace. Maybe she felt having eight episodes per season meant that she didn't have a lot of wiggle room and maybe she was afraid that they were going to get only 2 seasons for Hazbin. For whatever the reason could be, instead of leaving Heaven as vague and mysterious or something to be explored later on in the show, it was now part of the plot for season 1. So whatever idea she had for Heaven at the time she had to show now.
Yeah that would make sense since Vivzie heard about all the animated shows that got cancelled on WB and Netflix and worried she'd have the same fate. There's also how every animated show is greenlit for 2 seasons at the bare minimum.

Vivzie is really lucky she has a large fanbase because she can get her 6 season dream show most likely given that Amazon greenlit up to Season 4 for her.
 
Yeah that would make sense since Vivzie heard about all the animated shows that got cancelled on WB and Netflix and worried she'd have the same fate. There's also how every animated show is greenlit for 2 seasons at the bare minimum.

Vivzie is really lucky she has a large fanbase because she can get her 6 season dream show most likely given that Amazon greenlit up to Season 4 for her.
Lets not count on S3 or 4 even happening. Sure, Amazon has greenlit them, but at the last moment they can always pull the plug, we saw Netflix do that with Inside Job. Viv could easily get the same treatment, specially if S2 suddenly doesnt hit well enough with view numbers or subscriptions.
 
You know, if Viv held out and decided to keep Hazbin Hotel indie, it could have been Helluva Boss.

Think about it; she could have gotten the animation, the voice actors, the Broadway stars, all the coomer merch...that could have been Hazbin Hotel.

I'm not saying the writing or story would have been better, and she probably would have still been an asshole to all her former friends that helped her with the pilot in the first place. But we can clearly see, she got all that she wanted in her animated show with Helluva Boss. And she didn't have to sell her pitch to a corporation for it. I have to wonder if she ever does regret selling her ip to A24.
 
You know, if Viv held out and decided to keep Hazbin Hotel indie, it could have been Helluva Boss.

Think about it; she could have gotten the animation, the voice actors, the Broadway stars, all the coomer merch...that could have been Hazbin Hotel.

I'm not saying the writing or story would have been better, and she probably would have still been an asshole to all her former friends that helped her with the pilot in the first place. But we can clearly see, she got all that she wanted in her animated show with Helluva Boss. And she didn't have to sell her pitch to a corporation for it. I have to wonder if she ever does regret selling her ip to A24.
A24 is a weird beast, as they have a more hands off approach to creators stuff, they're also a go to if an indie filmmaker wants to get their stuff on the big screen (though at times A24 does step in, as they tossed out that Putin movie, making the creators release it independantly), so I can see how Viv thought these guys would be a good choice at the start.
 
Series Charlie being regarded as "Mary Sue" isn't because she doesn't have flaws, the flaws are there, it's just that she doesn't necessarily get called out on it, or to be more specific, doesn't reflect on how the consequences of her actions as a means to develop as a character as the show paints her as in the right, regardless of how little she earned it. Characterization wise, Pilot Charlie is optimistic but a realist when it ultimately comes down to it
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Compared to Series Charlie who legitimately thinks life is Sunshine and Rainbows, and if anything inconveniences that ideology, she's gets overly emotional towards people who had the audacity to upset her.
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Looking at these images here I realise another downgrade in the art, that being Charlie's expressions between the pilot and the series. With the first two GIFs of series Charlie it's like the artists are forcing those expressions onto the character, ironically it makes the expressions feel more fake.

Whereas with the screenshots from the pilot, Charlie's design is less angular and is drawn with more curved lines. The delicate nature of her personality is naturally conveyed in the softer drawings. To me it seems like a part of the conceit of the pilot is how Charlie doesn't fit in with the others in Hell. The way she's drawn visually symbolises that difference, and it makes that phone call scene more impactful as well.
 
Forget everything said about the shows. This is the true version of the show that cannot be beat.

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“Kaylou, how dare you shit in my jambalaya. That is it. You are going to hell for 1837592037492 years, and then you are grounded grounded grounded for an additional 2649492737392 years.”
 
Forget everything said about the shows. This is the true version of the show that cannot be beat.

View attachment 7082622
"Hooray. I went to Chucky Jesus and see Ale-Star and see his food. **DANCE**. Mister Ale-Star, please give me food."

"No".

"**Different voice** WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON I WANT MY DAMN FOOD ARRARARARARARRRRRARGGGHHHHHHHHHH**"
“Kaylou, how dare you shit in my jambalaya. That is it. You are going to hell for 1837592037492 years, and then you are grounded grounded grounded for an additional 2649492737392 years.”
Then that happens.
 
Redo Time

Next on the chopping block

Octavia

Vivianne did her so dirty, its not even funny having a teenager be the focal point or "main villian" is preposterous. And taking away her sense of urgency about how her father treats her is so fucked up. On a side note I have a family member that sort of embodies what Stolas is and things they've done are very simular to Stolases actions, so it's so disgusting to see Viv do things like that.

Narcissistic, nepto, victimizing, lying, can't ever take accountability, but will point at all the mistakes and wrongs YOU'VE done to them. Fucking horrendous behavior. She unironically made him the perfect manipulating abuser, and her self insert. Octavia deserves better.

Old design
Not goth or princess like, she looks like she's a hipster or a thrifter.
She doesn't look like Stella at all and just looks like her father.
Her color palette doesn't fit the goth/powers she has.
Crown beanie is a odd combination.
The only thing that shows she has star powers is her weird shirt.

New design
Gave her tons of purples and blues to give her a regal look. And also highlights her goth esthetic.
Her crown is fused to her skull much like her father's.
Gave her star and moon patterns to highlight her status and powers.
Gave her a mix of Stella's and Stolas's feathers/features.
Gave her a long neck to highlight her being younger and royal, she looks like a teenager still growing.
Her wings also wrap around her dress and has stars in her feathers.
Galaxy Dress
Stolas multiple eyes. But they all have irises.

Story wise

Octavia is sheltered

Octavia is born Stella does her best to raise her, but experiences postpartum depression leaving her to not fully commit to Octavia in her younger years, though she does very much love Octavia.

Stella uses and abuses medication to cope, leaving her not always present.

Octavia has the standard royalty childhood where servants and butlers raise her instead of Stella and especially Stolas. She grows fond of them
This gives her an appreciation for imps, she memorize all of their names and birthdays as to her they are her family. She is very kind to them and when her parents aren't looking she helps with chores and other things they do.

Many imps have a soft spot for her and look to her fondly.

She wants to grow up to be a kind queen and to be more at one with her people/family. And doesn't realize imps are lower class and or slaves.

Two imps (Orion and Marabel) in particular she grows very close to as they help her with learning spells and give her advice her parents should of given her. Essentially they are house slaves.

Orion was bought as a child from the Greed ring, as a form of offering to Stolas. And Marabel was given to Stolas from a Wrathian family that couldn't provide enough food as a alternative.

Both of their entire lives they've lived to serve the Goetia.

Blitzo also did servant tasks to raise Octavia, but doesn't really get to know her. Striker wants to kill all the Goetia, overlords and anything that puts imps in servitude.

Stella in Octavias teenage years begins to get closer to her daughter. She was distant as Octavia reminded her of herself when she was younger.
When Octavia finally becomes of age (16 in my version) to be able to learn more advanced spells and to eventually fulfill Stolas's position.

Stolas gets the book taken on her birthday. Postponing her initiation. And in a fit of betrayal and rage Stolas begins to round up as many of his Imps as possible to imprison them and or execute them, thinking that all imps are conspiring to ruin him.

Octavia does her best to defend themselves, as they are her family and friends. Stolas thinking his daughter is being brainwashed sends Orion and Marabel into a prison. He states that imps aren't to be trusted, and that her blood is a stronger bond than shackles.

Octavia doesn't understand this As her whole life she's been groomed to see the Goetia only being good beings. And when she tries to get confirmation of this from the imprisoned imps, they revealed that alot of them are slaves/prisoners/ and were sold off to the Goetia.

This gives her a dilemma to either become a Goetia and fulfill her destiny which might continue the pain Goetias cause, or to sully the Goetias name along side her father and be seen as the new lowest creatures in hell where even hellhounds and imps wouldn't want you as servants.

As always

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Most of that you get in fan fics or fan comics. I doubt anyone will have the time to make it a full blown animation sadly.
And even then it could be shit, like the RWBY fan games called JPDE, and it's sequel, they have passion, but that's about it.

Yes, this is real dialogue from JPDE, and apparently in a NSFW version, she rapes you but I can't confirm it.
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I love watching blind Hazbin Reactions because honestly same 💀

Also wanna note the woman referring to Vaggie and Charlie as "friends" by accident because their chemistry as lovers is just NOT very apparent to an uninitiated audience...
 
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I love watching blind Hazbin Reactions because honestly same 💀

Also wanna note the woman referring to Vaggie and Charlie as "friends" by accident because their chemistry as lovers is just NOT very apparent to an uninitiated audience...
They were clearly written to just be gal pals and the lesbian thing was added later. In fact I'm pretty sure Viv says that somewhere.
 
View attachment 7084524

I love watching blind Hazbin Reactions because honestly same 💀

Also wanna note the woman referring to Vaggie and Charlie as "friends" by accident because their chemistry as lovers is just NOT very apparent to an uninitiated audience...
Vaggie is probably the most wasted character of any of the major cast, on paper she has a good amount going for her, being the princess of Hell's girlfriend, has only been in Hell a couple years so could serve as an audience surrogate, and of course is secretly a former Exorcist who was one of the best ones according to Adam.

But in practice her relationship with Charlie is codependent as fuck (and no characters call her out on it, so I feel the writers might not even realize it given how unsubtle the show is), and her being a fallen Exorcist is literally just used to make Charlie angry at Vaggie for a single episode, the rest of the hotel nor Carmillia remotely give a shit that Vaggie has killed thousands of Sinners.

Said it before but the reveal of her being an exorcist should have been a mid season 2 twist, she's forgiven by Charlie rather quickly because Charlie is all about second chances, but characters like Angel, Husk, and Pentious treat her like the plague and it's not until the season finale do they begin to forgive her for the things she's done.
 
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