Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

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Watching the Ghorman massacre sequence, I have a heightened case of the same feeling I got from the end of Season 1. It is as if deep down the script writers know that your average "peaceful protest" consists of armed thugs and smoothbrain fodder cynically brought by said thugs for no purpose but to serve as some combination of expendable human shields and sacrificial pawns to give material for atrocity propaganda, and so that's what they reproduce on screen... they can't quite put their finger on why it is a bad thing. At least this time they had brains to make sure the confrontation is not entirely the rebels' fault.
The entire thing reminds me of the false flag on Maidan square a decade ago: you have a massive protest, you have semi-militarised police trying to keep things calm (the unfortunate squad commanded by Imperial Sarge "I look out for my men, because they deserve good leadership) and you have a false flag planned by the alphabet soup to justify a crackdown (snipers on the roofs going after Imperial Sarge) - and the actual military with orders to shoot at everyone who's not wearing the uniform.

Personally, I've rarely seen anything like this done reasonably well in a television show. A lot of thought went into this to make sure it's realistic, and gets the point accors that the Empire means business when the gloves truly come off. I mean, regardless of the propaganda they do in preparation for this, up until that point the Imperial forces on Ghorman do not act unreasonably cruel or are generally in the "we gonna slaughter the whole lot of you because we CAN"-mode you'd expect from a government run by an evil space wizard. It's much more nuanced than that, because you also have a Imperial civilian admin post trying to coordinate with whatever local government the Ghormans have. And Krennic also mentioned that they try to find substitutes for the material they needed, before they forcibly mine the planet for it.
 
Watching the Ghorman massacre sequence, I have a heightened case of the same feeling I got from the end of Season 1. It is as if deep down the script writers know that your average "peaceful protest" consists of armed thugs and smoothbrain fodder cynically brought by said thugs for no purpose but to serve as some combination of expendable human shields and sacrificial pawns to give material for atrocity propaganda, and so that's what they reproduce on screen... they can't quite put their finger on why it is a bad thing. At least this time they had brains to make sure the confrontation is not entirely the rebels' fault.
That's because you're dealing with liberals. Lucas included; they think a bunch of people rioting against an armed force puts them on the moral high ground, just as Lucas thought pacifism automatically puts you on the moral high ground. But the problem is, both the Ghormans and the people of Ferrix put passion in front of reason. They have no real strategy to drive the Empire offworld outside of just rioting, or rioting with guns. Which of course, just gives the Empire the excuse to spray and pray, knowing that they have the legal right to do so. I'd have thought the Ghormans would riot and fire upon the Imperials as a distraction so that they can send their people and their spiders offworld. Then before you know it, the Rebellion has 800,000 new recruits, and some stylish new threads for the officer class.

As for the people of Ferrix, again, they tried to attack an armed Imperial force with no guns; what did they expect the blaster-wielding Stormtroopers to do? Stand down and fight hand-to-hand? They should've at least brought blasters; there were enough rioters there that if they did have blasters, it would've been an even fight that they could've won.

Also, the whole series still has a really bad case of a mini-Galaxy. The original EU Ghorman Massacre became a landmark accident, remembered completely out of proportion (a few hundreds to thousands dead, the world entirely intact, basically nothing compared to dozens of population centers orbital-bombarded by the Empire later), because Tarkin got promoted for a completely one-sided act of cruelty, and that was when the Rebellion's founders decided that they cannot expect fair governance from Palpatine. But this accident... really is a very minor shout-out that the Empire can plausibly present as suppression of an armed revolt. It is entirely unclear how it can mobilize anyone, who is not already a committed rebel. The whole affair is just so tiny and muddled.
That, and if we look at the actual show, most people bought the Imperial line that the Ghormans were the assholes. People already hated them for being stuck-up and for defying the Empire, and the riot in Palmo Plaza proved the Imperial propaganda's veracity in the eyes of the populace. Your average John Q. Senator was more than happy to take the Emperor's bribe and speak of the Ghormans in a negative light. Even alien senators got into the act. And given that most of the Imperial army is made up of recruits and conscripts, the fact that Ghorman didn't trigger any coups or mass desertions anywhere means that the people were OK with what happened.

If anything, as far as the galactic populace is concerned, this legitimizes the crackdown operations the Empire performs upon rebellious planets galaxywide, because it just proved to the populace that a firm hand is needed to keep these "violent dissenters" in check.

The Ghorman Massacre was more like Mon Mothma's tipping point. The event that triggers her to openly defy the Empire and hand Palpatine the divorce papers. To the rest of the galaxy, it's a case of uppity Space Frenchmen getting their just desserts. So what if the Empire jackhammers their planet to collapse? As far as the rest of the galaxy is concerned, the Ghormans can get fucked.

Personally, I've rarely seen anything like this done reasonably well in a television show. A lot of thought went into this to make sure it's realistic, and gets the point accors that the Empire means business when the gloves truly come off. I mean, regardless of the propaganda they do in preparation for this, up until that point the Imperial forces on Ghorman do not act unreasonably cruel or are generally in the "we gonna slaughter the whole lot of you because we CAN"-mode you'd expect from a government run by an evil space wizard. It's much more nuanced than that, because you also have a Imperial civilian admin post trying to coordinate with whatever local government the Ghormans have. And Krennic also mentioned that they try to find substitutes for the material they needed, before they forcibly mine the planet for it.
Said evil Space Wizard was a master of politics. Even without his Force powers, he's the kind of guy that would make Frank Underwood and Tywin Lannister look like a joke. He knows how to present the narrative to further his goals.

I'm guessing that by the time Death Star 2.0 was made, they did find a substitute for the Ghorman Kalkite. It's bigger than the first.

Honestly, I'm sad they killed my nigger Cyril.
He just wanted to prove himself a good man. The Empire didn't give a shit about the Ghormans, the Rebels just wanted Ghorman to rebel so they can "burn bright" as Luthen said. Syril was the only one who saw that this was wrong, aside from Andor.
 
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Said evil Space Wizard was a master of politics. Even without his Force powers, he's the kind of guy that would make Frank Underwood and Tywin Lannister look like a joke. He knows how to present the narrative to further his goals.
For me it raises a series of (maybe?) ludicrous questions: What did Palpy do all day after he achieved the goal of becoming Emperor of most of the galaxy? What was his daily routine? What did he do in his free time, if any? Hobbies other than searching for arcane Sith artifacts? I like the idea of him sometimes having a nostalgic streak, remembering the days when everything was difficult, dangerous and one tiny mistake could have unravelled everything. Personally I think dealing with all the bureaucracy and actually doing the government-stuff would utterly bore and frustrate him...

What do you do when you win a game nobody else was playing competently?
 
For me it raises a series of (maybe?) ludicrous questions: What did Palpy do all day after he achieved the goal of becoming Emperor of most of the galaxy? What was his daily routine? What did he do in his free time, if any? Hobbies other than searching for arcane Sith artifacts? I like the idea of him sometimes having a nostalgic streak, remembering the days when everything was difficult, dangerous and one tiny mistake could have unravelled everything. Personally I think dealing with all the bureaucracy and actually doing the government-stuff would utterly bore and frustrate him...
The fucker was mostly searching for Sith artifacts as a way to increase his power. He does work with the bureaucracy now and then, but most of that action is left to Tarkin and the Moffs, while Vader and other Force-users like Mara Jade, the Shadow Guards, and the Inquisition are the clean-up crew who show up to fix things whenever the regular means of control don't work.

What do you do when you win a game nobody else was playing competently?
The next step. Become a god. First legally, then spiritually.

Just finished Andor, extremely full of itself show. Not really much more to say than what has already been said.
It kind of dents the Rebellion quite a bit, that they needed an Illusive Man-style figure to push things along and make the Rebellion even possible.

The one thing that set the Rebel Alliance apart from many factions in fiction and most factions in Star Wars was that they were the uncorrupted good guys of the saga. The Jedi, the Empire, the Republic, the Confederacy, and the Sith, they all make moral sacrifices to achieve their goals, and they lose themselves in the process, while the Rebels who stay true to their code of morality and idealism are the ones who win at the end of ROTJ. No more Sith, Confederates, Empire, Republic, even the old Jedi are dead and you're left with an idealist who is more of an Alliance man than he is a Jedi. (Luke) Their hands were clean of any corruption or moral wrongdoing, and they answered the people's call for freedom.

But now? Apparently, people were just fine with the Empire before the Rebels poked the bear and made them autistic about order. Sure, they were a bit extreme at the start, with them killing the Jedi and Andor's dad, but they apparently calmed down to the point where worlds like Ferrix police themselves, since by the start of the series, they hadn't seen a corpo cop in years, much less Stormtroopers.

Even worlds that have dissident senators like Alderaan and Chandrila are mostly left alone. The Empire was satisfied to play the role of beat cop, and most folks kept their heads down. And the Rebels had to use morally dirty tactics like stealing money to get the Empire to crack down hard on the fringe worlds, or send agents to help push Ghorman to rise up and take arms, knowing that the Empire would crush them. (Granted, the Empire had that plan too, but it wouldn't have succeeded without assistance from a Rebel cell.) And even when said worlds rebel, the people take the Empire's side, given how many senators denounced the Ghormans, and how the Empire's army of citizen-soldiers mostly remained loyal.

Not to mention killing willing moles who risked it all to spy on the Empire from within. I mean, who in the galaxy would support a rebellion that kills their own allies? Or abandons them like how Antor Kreeger and his Separatists were abandoned? Suddenly, it makes sense why that banker dude wanted Mon Mothma's daughter to marry her son. It also makes Imperials less willing to defect; if the reward for risking your ass for the Rebellion is a blaster bolt to the chest, you might as well remain loyal to the Empire.

I understood dropping Tay because he was becoming a liability, but that defector from the ISB, Luthen should've sent him to Yavin with Dedra's files that he stole. That would prove to the Alliance Council beyond all doubt what the Empire's up to. Instead of a frightened woman, you could give the council an ISB agent with all the data he gleamed from Dedra's account. That would be solid evidence that would be hard to deny.

Also, Luthen should've had a bomb installed in his museum; that way, he can just pack what's necessary, blow up all the evidence, and take the ISB guy and his assistant with him to Yavin on a clean getaway. By the time the ISB realizes the mole downloaded Death Star files from Dedra's account, it'll all be over, and Luthen would be laughing his ass off on the way to Yavin.

And it gets even worse if we add in the Filoni stuff. We know from SW: Rebels that the Empire was one stone short from abandoning the Death Star for Thrawn's TIE Defender program; Tarkin even gave him an audience with the Emperor so that he could argue for the Defender against Krennic and the Death Star. If he wasn't kidnapped and his TIE Defender factory not destroyed, Tarkin and the Empire would've ditched Krennic's oversized flying pillbox for a more stable plan involving prototype starfighters giving the Empire control of the stars and skies.

So even the Empire was willing to go with practical means such as the TIE Defender first, until the Rebels fucked that plan into the dirt by getting rid of its primary facility and its primary advocate. Then they were forced to rely on the substitute, which was the Death Star, after the Rebels proved they were a problem by offing a fucking Grand Admiral. At that point, Tarkin and Krennic insisting on the Death Star suddenly became logical, when a powerful fleet led by one of Palpatine's best officers was no match for some teenage rebels and Space Hentai. And prior to that, the Empire was a sloppy beast that could barely keep track of things, before the raid on Aldhani forced their hand and led to the ISB gaining more power to aid in the crackdown.

And at the end of the day, when Krennic described the Rebel cause as "lawless ineptitude", the other shows and movies, from Ahsoka, the Mandalorian, the Book of Boba Fett, and even the Sequel Trilogy, prove him right. The New Republic that the Alliance establishes is unable to enforce laws outside of the immediate core worlds that accept them willingly, their senate is easily bribed and compromised by First Order agents, and the rest of the galaxy is left a lawless mess, where any group, from Mandalorian warbands, to pirate fleets, and even Imperial remnants can operate with impunity. They're lawless and inept. Director Krennic described the situation perfectly.
 
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For me it raises a series of (maybe?) ludicrous questions: What did Palpy do all day after he achieved the goal of becoming Emperor of most of the galaxy? What was his daily routine? What did he do in his free time, if any? Hobbies other than searching for arcane Sith artifacts? I like the idea of him sometimes having a nostalgic streak, remembering the days when everything was difficult, dangerous and one tiny mistake could have unravelled everything. Personally I think dealing with all the bureaucracy and actually doing the government-stuff would utterly bore and frustrate him...

What do you do when you win a game nobody else was playing competently?
Mostly growing his power and studying the secrets of the Force so he can make his reign eternal. In Canon that involves hunting down leads regarding the Mortis gods and the World Between Worlds and in both continuities you have a lot of cloning experiments all in the pursuit of immortality.
 
season 2 has become a prestige show where they can shove their politics and pretentious bullshit down our throats
The last 3 episodes redeemed it for me. Nearly worth it all just for this moment alone.
dead-ra.webp
 
The last 3 episodes redeemed it for me. Nearly worth it all just for this moment alone.
I'm surprised they didn't draft the bitch and ship her off to the COMP-Force suicide battalions.


Then again, Ferrix proved that she isn't good at live-fire combat, so I suppose she won't make for a good meatshield for the Stormies and the army boys. I suppose having her work to make Death Star components would be more useful.
 
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she was so happy having someone just as autistic as she was
Those two autists were wonderful characters, shame the best Disney Era Star Wars produced in characters were eccentric imperial officers

Andor sucks.
Justice for Star Wars Theory!
Don't worry bro, we'll get a Darth Vader series where he stops sexual assault across the galaxy and monologues about how he feels super sad about killing kids while killing more kids
 
Those two autists were wonderful characters, shame the best Disney Era Star Wars produced in characters were eccentric imperial officers


Don't worry bro, we'll get a Darth Vader series where he stops sexual assault across the galaxy and monologues about how he feels super sad about killing kids while killing more kids
they were really cute together to be honest
 
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