Trolling Ethics Debate Thread

[Stud2Stud]

Always laugh when I read arguments pertaining to trolls ruining his reputation.

shut up. He never had a good reputation to begin with and has never made a valid effort to improve his life or his image. He wanted everything in his life to be handed to him while he was acting like a man child so trolls were handed to him when his antics became increasingly public.

There was no hope period.

He did have the reputation of being weird and the locals called him pokeboy, that's correct. It's also correct that he never put any effort into improving his image.
That's part of the issue why Trolling is unquestionably unethical in this particular case as far as I'm concerned:

Chris life sucked cause he was lazy, didn't put any effort into changing it, in short: he was passively living a mediocre life.
Trolls actually went out of their way, put effort into decreasing the quality of Chris' life even more.

On one hand you have Chris not improving out of neglect and on the other hand you have people worsening Chris life out of malice.
Noone can deny that. So people try to come up with really shaky reasons why it's ok to troll him anyway. Cause he was a doofus, his life already sucked or he's an asshole.
Sorry, that's not gonna work, it's just sugarcoating the truth to claim moral highground for picking on a mentally challenged person.

 

[timtommy]

Always laugh when I read arguments pertaining to trolls ruining his reputation.

shut up. He never had a good reputation to begin with and has never made a valid effort to improve his life or his image. He wanted everything in his life to be handed to him while he was acting like a man child so trolls were handed to him when his antics became increasingly public.

There was no hope period.

He had a bad reputation among the few people who knew him well. Everyone else hadn't heard of him and had no way of finding out about him.

Trolling spread the word. Granted there is more nuance to it, but I don't think saying "trolls gave Chris a bad reputation" is a false statement.

 

[Kosher Dill]

So what you're saying is, the trolls have robbed Chris of the 5 minutes' grace period in between meeting someone new, and earning his bad reputation all over again?

 

[General Juicer]

Sorry, that's not gonna work, it's just sugarcoating the truth to claim moral highground for picking on a mentally challenged person.

I keep hearing this phrase or variants of this phrase popping up. Would it have been okay to troll Chris if he didn't have neurological problems? No one feels bad about trolling, say, Nick Bates or Jay Geis. So on one hand, his autism is a very small component as to why people pick on him. It makes it significantly easier*, sure, but that's not why he gets targeted and autism doesn't automatically lead to or is even correlated with his many, many other problems.

On the other hand, his folks raising him super-shittily to the point where it was easy for him to accumulate all of his other negative traits stemmed from his 'autism' label. If Chris had appeared to be neurotypical it's very unlikely (given Borb's other children) that he would have been brought up to be the person he is. When talking about Chris, it's pretty much impossible to separate his being autistic from the doofus that he is today because that damage was done by the system well before he became an adult. On the other hand, a lot -- though certainly not all -- of his traits that make Chris a juicy target for trolling (gullibility, anger, narcissism, loads of free time, lack of intellectual development) don't stem from autism, any more than if Chris had been blind or had Williamson's Syndrome and had been pampered the same way.

* Many trolling projects would not have gotten off of the ground if Chris had not had autism. Such as the creation of Julie or Bianca. However, other trolling projects would've 'worked' on anyone with Chris's overall level of intelligence and lack of competence such as Asperchu and the Mailbag and Liquid Chris.

 

[Catastrophic]

Always laugh when I read arguments pertaining to trolls ruining his reputation.

shut up. He never had a good reputation to begin with and has never made a valid effort to improve his life or his image. He wanted everything in his life to be handed to him while he was acting like a man child so trolls were handed to him when his antics became increasingly public.

There was no hope period.

Doesn't matter, the trolls just made his bad reputation worse. How can you honestly think extorting and sharing a video of him having sex with a blow up doll hasn't influenced his reputation negatively? I'm not against the trolling, I'm just saying its had a negative impact on his reputation. Just because his reputation wasn't good to begin with doesn't change literal facts.

 

[Le Bateleur]

I keep hearing this phrase or variants of this phrase popping up. Would it have been okay to troll Chris if he didn't have neurological problems? No one feels bad about trolling, say, Nick Bates or Jay Geis. So on one hand, his autism is a very small component as to why people pick on him. It makes it significantly easier, sure, but that's not why he gets targeted and autism doesn't automatically lead to or is even correlated with his many, many other problems.

On the other hand, his folks raising him super-shittily to the point where it was easy for him to accumulate all of his other negative traits stemmed from his 'autism' label. If Chris had appeared to be neurotypical it's very unlikely (given Borb's other children) that he would have been brought up to be the person he is.

It's basically about sportsmanship, fighting chances, etc. I'd watch Mayweather-Pacquiao, I wouldn't watch Mayweather-TJ Church.

 

[Morbid Boredom]

I keep hearing this phrase or variants of this phrase popping up. Would it have been okay to troll Chris if he didn't have neurological problems? No one feels bad about trolling, say, Nick Bates or Jay Geis. So on one hand, his autism is a very small component as to why people pick on him. It makes it significantly easier, sure, but that's not why he gets targeted and autism doesn't automatically lead to or is even correlated with his many, many other problems.

On the other hand, his folks raising him super-shittily to the point where it was easy for him to accumulate all of his other negative traits stemmed from his 'autism' label. If Chris had appeared to be neurotypical it's very unlikely (given Borb's other children) that he would have been brought up to be the person he is.

I think that was exactly why Chris was targeted. He was the perfect combination of vulnerable and unsympathetic. He's selfish as hell, but he's also dumb and weak.

Tricking Chris in the early days of trolling was funny, but it was also simple. That's why we laugh at weens -they failed at taking the proverbial candy from a baby.




Edited to add a huge thing: You've brought up a very good point about other lolcows who seem a bit more... contemptible. I didn't follow Jay Geis, but I'm aware that Nick Bate recently complained about legal trouble.

There's another lolcow that is about to become a target of a pretty big campaign named "Vade". Every time I check the thread another ugly revelation comes to light -the thread has no "A-Log" rating, ie: There is nothing you can say about Vade that is too vicious.

An aspect to trolling may be the heat of the moment. I wonder how long it took for people to realize that Chris wasn't playing with a full deck and how unworthy an opponent he was (to continue with this idea of "fair play"). Right now, we see Vade developing and she is repulsive. She clearly has some issues, and not the ones she claims to have (which she imagines to be interesting and romantic), but if most of what is said about her is true, there will be some sort of real-world check on her actions. Just as Chris got in trouble without trolls spamming the authorities, Vade's gonna collide with the real world hard.

It's basically about sportsmanship, fighting chances, etc. I'd watch Mayweather-Pacquiao, I wouldn't watch Mayweather-TJ Church.

This too. Notice that near everyone involved in Deagle Nation that got rused (myself included!) is feeling pretty mellow about this. If you show up to laugh at an idiot, you'd do well to take yourself lightly.

 

[Clown Doll]

So what you're saying is, the trolls have robbed Chris of the 5 minutes' grace period in between meeting someone new, and earning his bad reputation all over again?

If anything, the most extreme troll schemes(getting Chris to shove his Medallion up his ass or blackmailing him for exchange for his PS3 passwords) made Chris looks really dumb, but sympathetic in comparison(because while it was funny, some trolls came off looking as sadistic), while the trolling schemes that were merely extracting information about Chris or setting up the stage for his own action, made him look bad because it was Chris revealing that he was a bad person all on his own. For example, the sweetheart sagas revealed that he swears his undying love for someone one minute, then trying to beg for sex from someone else right after, all the while pretending to be "true and honest" to someone else. Or the mailbag questions, where Chris reveals his aggressive homophobias.

Trolls getting CWC's nudes, pics of him in Barb's lingerie etc, made him look retarded and disgusting, but Chris looked bad all on his own, the trolling merely acted as a Megaphone between Chris and the world.

How can you honestly think extorting and sharing a video of him having sex with a blow up doll hasn't influenced his reputation negatively?.

I'd agree that trolls bombing his nudes to his Church was one of the things where he got really looked down upon as a direct result of the trolling.

 

[AnOminous]

. . .I wouldn't watch Mayweather-TJ Church.

I would.

 

[Coldgrip]

Chris is a vulnerable person. He is mentally disabled to the point that medical professionals agree he is unable to support himself through work.

So you're saying he got fired from Wendy's because he's mentally disabled and not for his overall personality or his actions?

When a group of organised people, each with superior mental abilities, decide to manipulate him, I don't think the "Chris chose to go along with it" argument holds much water.

Chris kept fighting them head on because he'd been lead to believe that he's always in the right. You could blame a bit of that on the 'tism and I'd agree, but the majority of it falls on Chris (ego) and Borb (inflating that ego).

I've also never seen anyone so spectacularly misapply the Golden Rule.

Are we talking about the trolls here or Chris?

If I became mentally disabled, I would want to be treated with compassion by qualified professionals. I would not want to be manipulated by unaccountable trolls for their own amusement. Thus, the application of the principle is "don't troll Chris".

There is a big difference between becoming so mentally disabled you need care takers and Chris. Chris can drive a car, he can and did attend collage and wound up with a degree, and he's competent enough to pull off his little wheelin'-and-dealin' scam. Chris isn't bright, you'll get no argument from me there, but I think you don't give him enough credit for what he can do.

Nobody who messed with Chris did so out of a sense of duty. They all got something out of it, be it amusement, praise or self-validation.

And I'm sure that makes them all terrible people right? Out of curiosity, how do you know for a fact that no one did it with the intention to help Chris? What about Vivian G?

 

[Morbid Boredom]

And I'm sure that makes them all terrible people right? Out of curiosity, how do you know for a fact that no one did it with the intention to help Chris? What about Vivian G?

False Dichotomy. Again, we're all aware that Chris isn't a good person. That doesn't make the Trolls instruments of justice, anymore than the BlueSpike* incident makes Chris magically blameless for his grabby hands and selfish attitude.

Secondly... Vivian G was Clyde Cash -I was under the impression Vivian would eventually turn on Chris no matter what.

*We can safely assume the consensus is that BlueSpike was a bad business and people shouldn't feel obligated to say it was bad.

 

[Coldgrip]

alse Dichotomy. Again, we're all aware that Chris isn't a good person. That doesn't make the Trolls instruments of justice, anymore than the BlueSpike* incident makes Chris magically blameless for his grabby hands and selfish attitude.

Not saying they were, I'm just pointing out that they aren't as terrible as people like to say they are.

 

[DrChristianTroy]

It's basically about sportsmanship, fighting chances, etc. I'd watch Mayweather-Pacquiao, I wouldn't watch Mayweather-TJ Church.

Manny vs Mayweather will be every other Mayweather fight. Some impressive speed from Mayweather, Mayweather breaks a hand and it goes to decision. At least TJ would provide a good KO.

On topic, there are too many variables to accurately say where Chris would be without the trolls. As mentioned they fucked up his mindset but he was a pretty shitty person beforehand. They made him do shitty things but the big events in his life (arrests, harassing people like Megan) had nothing to do with the trolls. If his life gets better it would most likely be only marginal better and it could easily be worse (if for no other reason than having less human interaction). Trolls or no trolls he'd lead a pretty shitty existence.

 

[Boxxychu]

I do have some personal issues regarding engaging Chris and "directing him" in real life with dishonest intentions (pretending to be someone else, pretending to be a girl interested in him, recording him without his knowing). He is easy to manipulate, so doing that - to me - feels like taking advantage of him.

THAT SAID, I won't pretend I'm not listening to the recent Catie audio that is being released. I do feel conflicted about it but damn, it's interesting. And I AM posting on a Chris forum with a Boxxy avatar, for Christ's sake so...

At the end of the day, if I don't feel OK about it, I don't do it. Simple as that. I'm not morally superior to anyone, so who the fuck am I to "condone or condemn"?

 

[Morbid Boredom]

Not saying they were, I'm just pointing out that they aren't as terrible as people like to say they are.

People on the Internet being unfair? Unheard of!

Believe it or not I don't think the PVCC eats babies (I know @Kosher Dill was exaggerating for effect ). I think part of what made the BlueSpike incident so shocking was that people were buying Clyde's BS about how the trolls were masterminds. When things went out of control (because the trolls were adolescents) onlookers thought the mess had gone "JUST AS PLANNED" -making them look pretty nasty.

 

[Le Bateleur]

Remember all those people saying that "Catie" was a wasted effort and should've never happened?

Prolonged casual conversation with Chris is an absolute goldmine of insight. I can't even call this trolling - you guys are giving him real social interaction and precisely the kind of ass-patting which Chris-chan thrives off of. Hell, if anything, you did the guy a favor by getting him out of the house and letting him interact with human beings (even if under false pretenses).

This venture yielded some pretty great content and I applaud Skyraider's acting skills.

On the other hand, Chris did something patently ridiculous - brought up the subject of marriage on the first date with someone he met on OKCupid - and not only did the woman go along with it, her male relative also treated this as a perfectly reasonable suggestion and was intrigued to know more.

It's the sort of thing that might have repercussions further down the line, no?

As for celebrating a "goldmine of insight" - can you explain exactly what was so valuable about this content, and why it was worth the damage to Chris?

 

[Marvin]

On the other hand, Chris did something patently ridiculous - brought up the subject of marriage on the first date with someone he met on OKCupid - and not only did the woman go along with it, her male relative also treated this as a perfectly reasonable suggestion and was intrigued to know more.

It's the sort of thing that might have repercussions further down the line, no?

Only if Chris doesn't accept that Catie was a troll.

 

[Le Bateleur]

Only if Chris doesn't accept that Catie was a troll.

Or if he doesn't make the link between her being a troll and her not fleeing in terror from his crazy wedding talk. He seems generally very poor at inductive reasoning.

 

[Marvin]

Or if he doesn't make the link between her being a troll and her not fleeing in terror from his crazy wedding talk. He seems generally very poor at inductive reasoning.

Eh, people constantly fail to call Chris out on his crazy beliefs, purely out of politeness. While the date wasn't very realistic and the marriage talk was regrettable, the marriage talk on that date won't affect Chris any worse than his usual daily interactions do.

 

[Lipitor]

Only if Chris doesn't accept that Catie was a troll.

The fact that at the start of the date the thing Chris was incredulous about was that she actually showed, yet didn't at all suspect any trolling or tom-foolery speaks fucking volumes. Like he didn't even show any hesitation or try to troll-check at all....