Canada is a failed state

[DiscoRodeo]

Yes. Depending on the procedure and the hospital you're in, it can absolutely run that high. Transplants alone will rack up over 250k.

I feel like I'm repeating myself and I tend to choose not to do that: If you don't have insurance, or have very, very poor/basic insurance coverage and expect them to pay for the moon.

As I mentioned before, even Dr. Mike had to call to bitch to an insurance company to get a procedure covered the patient required. It happens quite often, both from anecdote and data.

Then this is contradictory, its the equivalence of "well, my policy should cover this" vs "no it shouldnt" vs "yes it should". Aka: The problem of people paying for ultra basic insurance (a minimum) and expecting everything to be covered under that. Did he have a bronze plan? A silver plan? A gold plan? A platinum plan? Was it HMO? Did he get HMO from a non-approved vendor/out of plan vendor? Was it PPO with higher premiums?

You can go on, easily- with different insurance plans.

Transplants alone will rack up over 250k.

The fact that hospitals inflate prices is a sad thing, but its a separate issue to being on something like a bronze plan where you wind up having to foot the bill for half the cost, when being on a platinum plan will eliminate 90% of the cost of any illness upfront. Thats not even starting with the fact that insurance companies adjust premiums based off of income levels, and theres additional government support programs and waivers as well.

For example:

the max out of pocket for out of network Medicare is still under $10K.

I get that medical debt is a big issue in the US, its why I said earlier that the way the system is, it fucks over people working minimum wage jobs as adults.

But its just not the case that everyone is overburdened with medical debt for no reason. You make choices, its a free market (arguably). You have the choice to get on an insurance plan when youre younger. You have the choice to choose the plan with the lowest possible premiums and the least coverage, or something in-between- or something with maximum coverage, you choose. You have the choice to exercise, to stay healthy, to add to lowering those monthly premiums if you so wish it.

As I mentioned before, even Dr. Mike had to call to bitch to an insurance company to get a procedure covered the patient required. It happens quite often, both from anecdote and data.

90% of the time, a claim is denied because someone decided to go to a non-approved vendor for medical treatment. I can tell you from legal, at one point in the 2010s, you'd see dozens of cases a week of people trying to cheat the system by going to a private doctor to prescribe "pain medication" for treatment, aka medical marijuana, and then trying to sue the company to claim that "my plan covers pain relief, why won't you do this". Consider that an extreme case (though it was painstakingly common enough for a period), but you can get the idea of when and how claims get denied- and how claims successfully go through. Documented condition, client goes to approved vendor for appraisal. Client goes to approved vendor for treatment. Client follows rehabilitation plan. Client doesn't try to run a side business selling online tickets while taking long term sickness benefits for the "inability" to work, etc.

Like insurance or not, there are internal rules the companies follow, and the way people view it is honestly so simplistic and doesn't really give you a good idea of how it operates- let alone leaves others financially illiterate towards the system. If there's one thing people should be literate on, its insurance policies.

For me, I don't think its a perfect system- but it has two things that the Canadian system doesn't have that I think are crucifying us right now. Choice, and responsibility.

I don't have a choice of who I go to in Canada. I have to wait in line for up to a year to get actual life and death surgeries, if I need them. Right now, most of us would probably love to have the option for loved ones ailing to get them treatment, right now. I've got an aunt with a large tumor thats knocking her eye out of its socket right now, who has been on a waiting list since last year for treatment.

This system has no sense of responsibility. Whatever your health condition is, you get treatment. However long youre a citizen or a resident, you get treatment. Its part of why people flock to Canada to bring their entire families over, overburdening the system. Regardless of financial contribution, you have the same exact care. Maybe equality is good on paper, but what about the family eating itself to death? What about the Indian national who just moved his extended family into a long term hospice over here after living here for the minimum amount of time? We've taken this system for granted for so long, that our doctors are underpaid and have a flat salary, they can't even pay off their student debt and most move to the US for better pay as a result, and the government refuses to own up to the fact that years of limiting the amount of licensed medical practitioners has effectively crippled the industry on top of that.

There's benefits that we're all getting the same treatment and your medical treatment is being paid for by our high earners taxes, but what good is that treatment when youre not even going to get it when your dying of cancer on a waiting list.

This is much more broken than US healthcare.

 

[Butterschmalz]

Price freezes on groceries coming up...thats why Trudeau was meeting with major grocery store chain owners a week ago.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/pri...zation-efforts-coming-soon-minister-1.6590004

Sounds like the usual commie bullshit. Successfully performed in Argentina...

https://www.reuters.com/world/ameri...Aug 18 (Reuters,a high-stakes election looms.

which is another failed state. 100% inflation or something...

Next step would be food stamps. Like in the last days of the Soviet Union.

 

[BeetleBug242]

I’m confident that votes will mean nothing. This is a bit of a scary power level but I’m working with a multimillion dollar start up.

From everything I’m getting to see/hear about from my boss the entire industry is built upon bribery and threats, and politicians fucking everything up. I did a lot of research projects for my courses and an insane amount of business in Canada are propped up with foundations of greed and incompetency. To the point they will eventually collapse and it wouldn’t matter because everyone made their money.

Our workers unions are literally all communists who begin secret zoom calls with “hey anti-fa comrades!”

I brought up some of my beliefs about how bad it’s going to get to my boss, he’s hesitant on the blood, but absolutely agrees there will be major conflict and issues if things don’t immediately improve.

This December I think we might see the start of the financial collapses.

Spoiler: This is really scitzo

They are doing everything on purpose, this might all be the longest game in history to create the angriest and most bloodthirsty western populace. The world is gearing up for the most horrific conflicts the likes the world has not seen. And we have no military presence and the rest of the world looks down on us with pity. Within the next five years a total shift in Canada will happen. We will finally establish a national identity and it would be strict adherence to the police state. Actually I think the entire globe is about to go through a shift. Something feels strangely different this time around. Like the fucking UK said officially multiculturalism has failed! We still sign off everything to the fucking British and don’t be fooled they absolutely have their thumbs dee on our pie still.

 

[Jetpack Himmler]

I brought up some of my beliefs about how bad it’s going to get to my boss, he’s hesitant on the blood, but absolutely agrees there will be major conflict and issues if things don’t immediately improve.

There are countless variables at play here. For example, Ottawa is basically picking fight with Alberta over net-zero electrical generation with Premier Danielle Smith hinting at invoking the Sovereignty Act. Given that the the Supreme Court of Canada is heavily stacked in the Laurentian's favor (three judges from Ontario, three from Quebec, and three from the other regions), I could see the secessionist movement growing in AB/SK if the SCC rules in the federal government's favor. Would Ottawa declare both provinces to be in rebellion should they secede and attempt to keep them in Confederation by force? Well, I doubt the military could take on farmers with hunting rifles given the state of the Canadian armed forces with outdated equipment, manpower shortages, and low morale. Same with any potential flare-ups across the nation.

Canadians are dangerously complacent about the nation's capabilities. Your typical insipid mouth-breather from the GTA, Ottawa, Montreal, and the Lower Mainland believe that Canada is still a respectable middle power. The problem with that is that Canada has no military muscle and our economic "might" is based on excessive borrowing and a real estate bubble that is about to burst. Canada has historically built its economy around resource extraction given our comparative low population and industrial capacity, but Laurentian dimwits like Trudeau believe that they can change the economy on a whim. Bribery and threats are their only tools because they both too myopic and incompetent to craft sensible policy.

 

[jertzog]

They are doing everything on purpose, this might all be the longest game in history to create the angriest and most bloodthirsty western populace.

Reads like cope but this would be funny. Canadians were the biggest (unconvicted) war criminals on the allied side in WW1 because they were such bitter bastards. After all, who else would colonize such a country?
They were still rused into butchering Fritzes though. Viciousness needs cunning.

 

[Kiwisee]

Reads like cope but this would be funny. Canadians were the biggest (unconvicted) war criminals on the allied side in WW1 because they were such bitter bastards. After all, who else would colonize such a country?
They were still rused into butchering Fritzes though. Viciousness needs cunning.

I believe Canadians have a long as fuck fuse, longer than Americans.

But once it’s set off, ohhhhh boy are Canadians willing to commit war crimes that would make even the most unhinged Hamas troop go “holy fuck, calm down!”

 

[BeetleBug242]

I believe Canadians have a long as fuck fuse, longer than Americans.

But once it’s set off, ohhhhh boy are Canadians willing to commit war crimes that would make even the most unhinged Hamas troop go “holy fuck, calm down!”

I’m glad someone else gets it. It’s true. This is what also fuels my suspicions. As well as our past history, man we were absolutely insane. War crimes doesn’t even begin to describe the vitriol Canadian war members had. For everyone one of us that was killed in battle we would bomb 10 of your civilians. Best god damn shock troopers the world has ever seen.

I’m pretty sure the text time I get attacked by a crackhead, well, I'm probably going to catch a charge. And if they do try that, oh boy!

Man I cannot wait for other people to hit the limits I’m at, once that happens it’s gonna be so good you guys.

 

[BeetleBug242]

Get ready! take a look at this awesome story. A repeat offender is released, arrested for the same crimes, then released 7 hours later, and 1 hour after that gets arrested and held for bail.

Yeah, yeah.

 

[Butterschmalz]

But once it’s set off, ohhhhh boy are Canadians willing to commit war crimes that would make even the most unhinged Hamas troop go “holy fuck, calm down!”

I personally believe in a slow and long decline without any violence. Till we are a real 3rd world country. I mean the healthcare system is already 3rd world level. Who knows?
But I mean anybody expected something like the Freedom convoy? Not me. And the reaction to it? Fuckin great. WW2 level emergency act measures and getting called Nazi for honking horns...I mean if you want to call something National Canadian Identity...there it is.
Canadians "holding the line" at fucking minus 40 at the border in Emerson, Manitoba during a snow storm in 22....

 

[Sweetpeaa]

I was in downtown Kitchener yesterday. Haven't really spent time in that city since 2016. Exactly what the hell is going on here? our mid sized cities are beginning to resemble the post 2008 recession cities of the rust belt states. Kitchener is looking like 2011 Syracuse NY - with much less black people and over priced real estate. Tent cities, closed up businesses, addicted people everywhere and no jobs (aside from tech). You'll see a closed business, a dead bar, a pot shop, a salon for rich people, than a pot shop and another boarded up or ''free space'' business beside it. The only ''hoppin' place was a dollarama and it was full of homeless people and Indian security guards chasing them around. Never seen a dollarma with security guards lol.

There is that mid day and 5 o'clock ''ghost town vibe'' occurring a well. I didn't see anyone but drug addicts walking the streets and some tech guys running to get their starbucks. People aren't shopping, they're not eating in restaurants and they're not going to bars. Ten years ago you'd see all of those things. Talked to a girl working in a convenient store downtown there and she told me ''I choose a shift that's no where close to sundown for a reason. I get in my car and take off'' - remember when you honestly didn't have to worry that much over that type of thing?

I haven't been Toronto in forever but people say it's a similar phenomenon outside of luxury districts.

Let's face it. We're a country in deep economic decline.

 

[OutInTheRain]

The only ''hoppin' place was a dollarama and it was full of homeless people and Indian security guards chasing them around. Never seen a dollarma with security guards lol.

The security guards thing is something I've only seen pop up in the last couple of years. Businesses have to hire someone to corral the meth heads and the crack heads that infest even the small towns now. Of course they have to be Indian, because if they are white the natives scream about racism when they get caught.

 

[Lobster Cult High Priest]

The security guards thing is something I've only seen pop up in the last couple of years. Businesses have to hire someone to corral the meth heads and the crack heads that infest even the small towns now. Of course they have to be Indian, because if they are white the natives scream about racism when they get caught.

Also the Pajeets are paid like $18-20 hour and security services are provided by only a few large companies that exclusively hire Pajeets

 

[Jetpack Himmler]

The security guards thing is something I've only seen pop up in the last couple of years. Businesses have to hire someone to corral the meth heads and the crack heads that infest even the small towns now. Of course they have to be Indian, because if they are white the natives scream about racism when they get caught.

I work retail in a seedy part of Calgary and I can confirm this. We need a constant loss prevention and security presence to keep them at bay, and yes I've heard the racism accusations as well. We had problems with shoplifting for as long as I've been there, but it's got noticeably worse in the last three years. Homeless congregate in the LRT stations and now wander the residential areas. I've seen some sleeping out on the street. Hell, I noticed tents popping up near the overpasses on the highway.

Yet Trudeau and his idiot supporters would have us believe that we're living in a golden age.

 

[BeetleBug242]

Holy FUCK I just had a Canadian military member come in and spill some beans.

His whole research right now is to combat drone warfare, how do we deal with this unprecedented level of warfare is how he phrased it.

The best tank in the world (his word not mine), a $10 million Israeli one, was destroyed easily with $1000 bomb drone.

He told me the United States, is thinking about using cannons, which are actually going to be more expensive than drones, lazers, and probably microwave radiation beams.


Another country is thinking of just doing drone versus drone warfare smashing them into each other, calling them swarms.

Basically alluded to the fact that nobody knows what to do about drone warfare and it’s completely destroying what we know about military conflicts.

He told me it looks like everything is going to completely change, flashed his eyes real big, “it’s a little scary eh?”


Me and my co worker after hearing everything he told us.

 

[Chandelier]

@Chandelier (can't reply to your post for some reason): when did that familly member have this experience? I ask because one of the rare things I like about the Affordable Care act is that max out of pocket is legally obligated to mean exactly that and the max out of pocket for out of network Medicare is still under $10K.

Happened in 2016. His bill was still astronomical, and - as I stated above - they still tried to cheat him. He was too ill to negotiate anything. A separate family member had to deal with the insurance companies.

Then this is contradictory, its the equivalence of "well, my policy should cover this" vs "no it shouldnt" vs "yes it should". Aka: The problem of people paying for ultra basic insurance (a minimum) and expecting everything to be covered under that. Did he have a bronze plan? A silver plan? A gold plan? A platinum plan? Was it HMO? Did he get HMO from a non-approved vendor/out of plan vendor? Was it PPO with higher premiums?

You can go on, easily- with different insurance plans.

He wasn't paying for basic insurance. He used to work for a insurance company. I would assume that he had better coverage than most. I do not know the exact specifics because I was not in touch in him for years. He was under Medicare due to his age, and he had supplementary insurance. A family member gives a guess at around $5,000 out of pocket, though this is just a guess. He had to transfer his money to the family members taking care of him as the state was going to seize his assets.

The fact that hospitals inflate prices is a sad thing, but its a separate issue to being on something like a bronze plan where you wind up having to foot the bill for half the cost, when being on a platinum plan will eliminate 90% of the cost of any illness upfront. Thats not even starting with the fact that insurance companies adjust premiums based off of income levels, and theres additional government support programs and waivers as well.

I consider it an issue regardless. Especially when itemized bills may contain generic brands sold at 10x the cost.

I get that medical debt is a big issue in the US, its why I said earlier that the way the system is, it fucks over people working minimum wage jobs as adults.

But its just not the case that everyone is overburdened with medical debt for no reason. You make choices, its a free market (arguably). You have the choice to get on an insurance plan when youre younger. You have the choice to choose the plan with the lowest possible premiums and the least coverage, or something in-between- or something with maximum coverage, you choose. You have the choice to exercise, to stay healthy, to add to lowering those monthly premiums if you so wish it.

Is it a free market? Drugs would be much cheaper and there'd be far more competition within insurance companies. IIRC, it's based on risk pools, not competition. The argument can absolutely be made that there is too much red tape - and I know Trump himself had to intervene to lower insulin prices. You can deregulate insurance companies, or yank their teeth out, and lower the overall cost, or they can keep the loopholes.

One of the solutions I've read, and even seen on the Farms, is that opening the markets would incentivize competition, rather than risk pool. That's how we got smartphones cheap - a competitive industry.

90% of the time, a claim is denied because someone decided to go to a non-approved vendor for medical treatment. I can tell you from legal, at one point in the 2010s, you'd see dozens of cases a week of people trying to cheat the system by going to a private doctor to prescribe "pain medication" for treatment, aka medical marijuana, and then trying to sue the company to claim that "my plan covers pain relief, why won't you do this". Consider that an extreme case (though it was painstakingly common enough for a period), but you can get the idea of when and how claims get denied- and how claims successfully go through. Documented condition, client goes to approved vendor for appraisal. Client goes to approved vendor for treatment. Client follows rehabilitation plan. Client doesn't try to run a side business selling online tickets while taking long term sickness benefits for the "inability" to work, etc.

Is it 90% of the time, or 90% of the time with low-income patients? Because welfare fraud is more common among certain demographics. I'll give another example: it's difficult to get approval for a hysterectomy due to medical conditions. Insurance companies will often refuse to do it because 'you're too young', 'you don't have an issue, etc. If it's based on the approved vendor, that vendor is still the one making the choices. To give another example, on the SRS thread we see trans people get immediate and thorough coverage for 'top surgery' or 'bottom surgery', while others struggle with their insurance companies despite paying high premiums.

Like insurance or not, there are internal rules the companies follow, and the way people view it is honestly so simplistic and doesn't really give you a good idea of how it operates- let alone leaves others financially illiterate towards the system. If there's one thing people should be literate on, its insurance policies.

For me, I don't think its a perfect system- but it has two things that the Canadian system doesn't have that I think are crucifying us right now. Choice, and responsibility.

You know the meme of that big juicy burger and someone from Bongland quipped, 'why do Americans eat like they have free healthcare?' You and I both know America should absolutely take more responsibility re: diet, such as cutting out sugar, returning to beef tallow for oil, eliminating rape seed oil and the other things clogging up their hearts. Life expectancy has dropped in the US.

Return actual competition to the insurance market, and costs will be reduced.

I don't have a choice of who I go to in Canada. I have to wait in line for up to a year to get actual life and death surgeries, if I need them. Right now, most of us would probably love to have the option for loved ones ailing to get them treatment, right now. I've got an aunt with a large tumor thats knocking her eye out of its socket right now, who has been on a waiting list since last year for treatment.

If you have the wealth to go wherever you want for healthcare, you should absolutely be able to. I am not against that choice. It should be noted that the bulk of those leaving Canada for healthcare are by and large Boomers, who have disposable income. It is difficult for people like me to leave when rent eats 2/3rds of our income. So much as buying a plane ticket would mean the difference between food for that week and rent.

This system has no sense of responsibility. Whatever your health condition is, you get treatment. However long youre a citizen or a resident, you get treatment. Its part of why people flock to Canada to bring their entire families over, overburdening the system.

I am against that full-stop as I am an immigration restrictions. States like NY are also suffering the issue we are, albeit Dems are a little mouthier about that NIMBY.

Regardless of financial contribution, you have the same exact care. Maybe equality is good on paper, but what about the family eating itself to death?

I mean, part of the reason why healthcare costs are so high in the US is due to obesity. I get it: you don't want to pay for slobs and those who waste their lives away. Yet you do, and Americans pay for the healthcare of other countries, one being Ukraine, the second being Israel.

What about the Indian national who just moved his extended family into a long term hospice over here after living here for the minimum amount of time?

He has to go back, plus healthcare is cheaper in India anyways. Our people should come first, always.

We've taken this system for granted for so long, that our doctors are underpaid and have a flat salary, they can't even pay off their student debt and most move to the US for better pay as a result, and the government refuses to own up to the fact that years of limiting the amount of licensed medical practitioners has effectively crippled the industry on top of that.

Student debt for med students should be forgiven. If you go to the Ivy Leagues, with interest, your debt can go over $400k. It's $250k at less expensive colleges.

There's benefits that we're all getting the same treatment and your medical treatment is being paid for by our high earners taxes, but what good is that treatment when youre not even going to get it when your dying of cancer on a waiting list.

This is much more broken than US healthcare.

Nor do I think a family should go bankrupt due to an unexpected medical cost. Most working class people don't have $5-10k on hand, and even a vehicle issue can make them go broke (happened in mine). The upper middle class doesn't really have this issue, as they have higher wages, higher social status, and have better jobs due to a college degree.

People compare the US-Canada healthcare systems when both should aspire more to be like the Netherlands or South Korea. They have national healthcare systems, but also private systems. Israel also has this. If you are a working class person who cannot afford a medical emergency, the national healthcare system will help you. If you have a comfortable job and can afford private, you should have that choice, too.

We definitely need an overhaul and stop wasteful federal spending - that $9 billion to Ukraine could've helped, for one.

 

[Rainbow Child]

Notorious Enemy of the State, William Whatcott, is set to present his Application for Leave to Appeal to the Supreme Court, on Monday, 16 October, 2023.

Application attached to this post.

​

Zoom link to the Hearing: https://ca01web.zoom.us/j/65919371490
(Hearing set for 09:00 Ontario Time in Chamber 7-1 of the Ontario Superior Court)

Quick Rundown:​

1. Mr Whatcott et al marched in the Toronto Pride Parade, masked, under a pseudonym, handing out what seemed like condoms but were actually flyers when opened, bearing medical facts and religious doctrine about Canada's favourite pasttime (sorry, hockey, you've been decolonised);
2. The State charged him with a hatecrime for that;
3. He won his trial, successfully defending himself against the Thoughtcrime charge;
4. The State appealed the aquittal, presenting new arguments at the appeal;
5. The State won the appeal and the Judge sentenced the case to be sent back down to the lower court to be retried with the new arguments considered;
6. Whatcott was originally going to seek asylum for political persecution abroad, but his lawyer convinced him to return to Canada to appeal the appeal to the Supreme Court;
7. The first day of the retrial is Monday, when Whatcott's lawyer will have the opportunity to submit the attached Leave for Appeal to the judge presiding.

Those wishing to have their bank accounts frozen by the State may do so by contributing to Whatcott's Defence Fund, here:

https://www.lifefunder.com/billwhatcott

 

[Just_Somebody]

1. He won his trial, successfully defending himself against the Thoughtcrime charge;
2. The State appealed the aquittal, presenting new arguments at the appeal;
3. The State won the appeal and the Judge sentenced the case to be sent back down to the lower court to be retried with the new arguments considered;
4. Whatcott was originally going to seek asylum for political persecution abroad, but his lawyer convinced him to return to Canada to appeal the appeal to the Supreme Court;
5. The first day of the retrial is Monday, when Whatcott's lawyer will have the opportunity to submit the attached Leave for Appeal to the judge presiding.

This right here is why nobody should ever stay in Canada. The government has the full resources of the state. They lose, and yet, they can appeal because "Herpaderp we totally didn't mention this", and some judge will give the government another shot to fuck your life up. Meanwhile you're paying for this, alongside your own prosecution through taxes.

For additional, more amusing news, who wants to see Taliban supporters argue with Hamas supporters in Ontario?

https://kiwifarms.st/threads/2023-israel-palestine-armed-conflict.173114/post-16975416

(Linking the post as I couldn't download the video.)

 

[Osama Bin Laden]

a funny screenshot from this video

as for the chinaman speaking, my only response

 

[Ser Prize]

Price freezes on groceries coming up...thats why Trudeau was meeting with major grocery store chain owners a week ago.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/pri...zation-efforts-coming-soon-minister-1.6590004

Sounds like the usual commie bullshit. Successfully performed in Argentina...

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/argentina-sets-grocery-price-controls-90-days-tame-inflation-2023-08-18/#:~:text=BUENOS AIRES, Aug 18 (Reuters,a high-stakes election looms.

which is another failed state. 100% inflation or something...

Next step would be food stamps. Like in the last days of the Soviet Union.

Look at this and @DiscoRodeo and his post about long ass waiting lists for medical care and it really should sink in: we are in late term soviet style shit.

 

[Audit]

Look at this and @DiscoRodeo and his post about long ass waiting lists for medical care and it really should sink in: we are in late term soviet style shit.

It's far worse than that. The USSR didn't end its days mass importing Afghanis and Indians to replace its Russian population. Canada can't have a tragic decade like the Russians before starting the recovery process. You're going down the Yugoslavia ethnic violence path in the best of circumstances or neofeudalism at worst as Canada is transformed into a "decolonized" plantation with endless hordes of third world serfs brought in.

Somehow, Trudeau has managed to be worse than even Yeltsin. It's an impressive feat that is rarely matched outside of the eunuch dynasty in China.