US Cloudflare: "Terminating Service for 8Chan"

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Terminating Service for 8Chan

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August 05, 2019 1:44AM


The mass shootings in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio are horrific tragedies. In the case of the El Paso shooting, the suspected terrorist gunman appears to have been inspired by the forum website known as 8chan. Based on evidence we've seen, it appears that he posted a screed to the site immediately before beginning his terrifying attack on the El Paso Walmart killing 20 people.

Unfortunately, this is not an isolated incident. Nearly the same thing happened on 8chan before the terror attack in Christchurch, New Zealand. The El Paso shooter specifically referenced the Christchurch incident and appears to have been inspired by the largely unmoderated discussions on 8chan which glorified the previous massacre. In a separate tragedy, the suspected killer in the Poway, California synagogue shooting also posted a hate-filled “open letter” on 8chan. 8chan has repeatedly proven itself to be a cesspool of hate.

8chan is among the more than 19 million Internet properties that use Cloudflare's service. We just sent notice that we are terminating 8chan as a customer effective at midnight tonight Pacific Time. The rationale is simple: they have proven themselves to be lawless and that lawlessness has caused multiple tragic deaths. Even if 8chan may not have violated the letter of the law in refusing to moderate their hate-filled community, they have created an environment that revels in violating its spirit.

We do not take this decision lightly. Cloudflare is a network provider. In pursuit of our goal of helping build a better internet, we’ve considered it important to provide our security services broadly to make sure as many users as possible are secure, and thereby making cyberattacks less attractive — regardless of the content of those websites. Many of our customers run platforms of their own on top of our network. If our policies are more conservative than theirs it effectively undercuts their ability to run their services and set their own policies. We reluctantly tolerate content that we find reprehensible, but we draw the line at platforms that have demonstrated they directly inspire tragic events and are lawless by design. 8chan has crossed that line. It will therefore no longer be allowed to use our services.

What Will Happen Next

Unfortunately, we have seen this situation before and so we have a good sense of what will play out. Almost exactly two years ago we made the determination to kick another disgusting site off Cloudflare's network: the Daily Stormer. That caused a brief interruption in the site's operations but they quickly came back online using a Cloudflare competitor. That competitor at the time promoted as a feature the fact that they didn't respond to legal process. Today, the Daily Stormer is still available and still disgusting. They have bragged that they have more readers than ever. They are no longer Cloudflare's problem, but they remain the Internet's problem.

I have little doubt we'll see the same happen with 8chan. While removing 8chan from our network takes heat off of us, it does nothing to address why hateful sites fester online. It does nothing to address why mass shootings occur. It does nothing to address why portions of the population feel so disenchanted they turn to hate. In taking this action we've solved our own problem, but we haven't solved the Internet's.

In the two years since the Daily Stormer what we have done to try and solve the Internet’s deeper problem is engage with law enforcement and civil society organizations to try and find solutions. Among other things, that resulted in us cooperating around monitoring potential hate sites on our network and notifying law enforcement when there was content that contained an indication of potential violence. We will continue to work within the legal process to share information when we can to hopefully prevent horrific acts of violence. We believe this is our responsibility and, given Cloudflare's scale and reach, we are hopeful we will continue to make progress toward solving the deeper problem.

Rule of Law

We continue to feel incredibly uncomfortable about playing the role of content arbiter and do not plan to exercise it often. Some have wrongly speculated this is due to some conception of the United States' First Amendment. That is incorrect. First, we are a private company and not bound by the First Amendment. Second, the vast majority of our customers, and more than 50% of our revenue, comes from outside the United States where the First Amendment and similarly libertarian freedom of speech protections do not apply. The only relevance of the First Amendment in this case and others is that it allows us to choose who we do and do not do business with; it does not obligate us to do business with everyone.

Instead our concern has centered around another much more universal idea: the Rule of Law. The Rule of Law requires policies be transparent and consistent. While it has been articulated as a framework for how governments ensure their legitimacy, we have used it as a touchstone when we think about our own policies.

We have been successful because we have a very effective technological solution that provides security, performance, and reliability in an affordable and easy-to-use way. As a result of that, a huge portion of the Internet now sits behind our network. 10% of the top million, 17% of the top 100,000, and 19% of the top 10,000 Internet properties use us today. 10% of the Fortune 1,000 are paying Cloudflare customers.

Cloudflare is not a government. While we've been successful as a company, that does not give us the political legitimacy to make determinations on what content is good and bad. Nor should it. Questions around content are real societal issues that need politically legitimate solutions. We will continue to engage with lawmakers around the world as they set the boundaries of what is acceptable in their countries through due process of law. And we will comply with those boundaries when and where they are set.

Europe, for example, has taken a lead in this area. As we've seen governments there attempt to address hate and terror content online, there is recognition that different obligations should be placed on companies that organize and promote content — like Facebook and YouTube — rather than those that are mere conduits for that content. Conduits, like Cloudflare, are not visible to users and therefore cannot be transparent and consistent about their policies.
The unresolved question is how should the law deal with platforms that ignore or actively thwart the Rule of Law? That's closer to the situation we have seen with the Daily Stormer and 8chan. They are lawless platforms. In cases like these, where platforms have been designed to be lawless and unmoderated, and where the platforms have demonstrated their ability to cause real harm, the law may need additional remedies. We and other technology companies need to work with policy makers in order to help them understand the problem and define these remedies. And, in some cases, it may mean moving enforcement mechanisms further down the technical stack.

Our Obligation

Cloudflare's mission is to help build a better Internet. At some level firing 8chan as a customer is easy. They are uniquely lawless and that lawlessness has contributed to multiple horrific tragedies. Enough is enough.

What's hard is defining the policy that we can enforce transparently and consistently going forward. We, and other technology companies like us that enable the great parts of the Internet, have an obligation to help propose solutions to deal with the parts we're not proud of. That's our obligation and we're committed to it.

Unfortunately the action we take today won’t fix hate online. It will almost certainly not even remove 8chan from the Internet. But it is the right thing to do. Hate online is a real issue. Here are some organizations that have active work to help address it:
Our whole Cloudflare team’s thoughts are with the families grieving in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio this evening.
 
Fredrick thinks 4gag didn't have any shooters
View attachment 977119
https://web.archive.org/web/2019101...r.com/HW_BEAT_THAT/status/1185383579708096512
There has already been shooters associated with 4chan, three times. A total of 20 people died and 26 people injured.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umpqua_Community_College_shooting#Perpetrator
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-43881931
https://www.wired.com/2013/04/4chan-mall-shooter/
This makes me wonder, why did 8gag even get fucked over in the first place.
8chan had 3 shooters, the same as 4chan however 4chan hasn't gotten shut down yet.
A while back there was a Norwegian 4channer who killed someone and uploaded photos of the murder to 4chan itself. He was accused of faking it before the news reports came in.

Maybe some Twitter vigilantes should shut that site down too.
 
A while back there was a Norwegian 4channer who killed someone and uploaded photos of the murder to 4chan itself. He was accused of faking it before the news reports came in.

Maybe some Twitter vigilantes should shut that site down too.

There have been two or three or maybe even more killers on /b/ alone who just murdered someone and then posted pictures or stories. Since there have been many, many, many, many more who posted similar stories or fake pictures, they were usually dismissed at first as fakes.

Freddit's problem is obviously that he just hates Jim Watkins and wants revenge, not any bullshit noble quest to atone for being a pedophile piece of shit.
 
A while back there was a Norwegian 4channer who killed someone and uploaded photos of the murder to 4chan itself. He was accused of faking it before the news reports came in.

Maybe some Twitter vigilantes should shut that site down too.
4chan has both Cloudflare's and Google's stamp of approval - you'd think there'd be voluminous twitter freakouts regarding those points and an endless parade of articles calling for both Cloudflare and Google to cut ties. Other than static threads at 8chan, what is the difference? Why is one unfathomable evil, while they other has tacit establishment approval?

A fun 4chan op would be to encourage the public to lobby Google to cut off Recaptcha services to 4chan. We can no longer stand by while they support a website as inequitable, unjust, and downright mean as 4chan. Last time I was there someone had the nerve to call me faggot! My therapist assures me its do to a deep-seeded thirst for cock.
 
I'm rooting for Brianna Wu to get her wish of extradition of Frederick. Hes a horrendous troll that deserves death. The internet gave him too much of a pass and like any bullshit Hollywood movie the hideous troll always sides with the villains in the end. It would be fitting for another peice of shit to get his/her way with him.
 
I'm rooting for Brianna Wu to get her wish of extradition of Frederick. Hes a horrendous troll that deserves death. The internet gave him too much of a pass and like any bullshit Hollywood movie the hideous troll always sides with the villains in the end. It would be fitting for another peice of shit to get his/her way with him.

I wonder if he'll get deported for fucking around with the Watkins naturalization shit. I seriously doubt Duterte's Philippines is that congenial a place for an outright commie.
 
This is what I'm getting now.


Note the two DoD IPs in between 116.251.82.109 (Zhejiang Taobao Network Co.,Ltd) and the final destination at alibaba.
But can you ping those "DoD" ips directly? Ping 11.52.136.9. It responds to traceroute then it should respond to ping directly or just do a traceroute to 11.52.136.9.

I would think glowers would use something like SPAN inside the ISP if they had cooperation or fiber splitters on the outside if they didn't. Both ways would let them sniff all the traffic and be completely invisible above layer 2.

I sure what is going on is what has already been mentioned. Crappy ISP's use IP blocks internally they ASSume will never be routable on the real internet. DoD owns 11.0.0.0/8.
A lot of venders used 1.1.1.1 internally. They ASSumed no one would ever make that routable even though its a valid IP. CF made it routable to expose the shitty practice and stuff broke. If the DoD ever made their 11 block routable then it would break all these ghetto ISPs like Sprint and Alibaba.
 
I sure what is going on is what has already been mentioned. Crappy ISP's use IP blocks internally they ASSume will never be routable on the real internet. DoD owns 11.0.0.0/8.

It would be very Chinese to do something like this. I'm still not going to assume it's innocent when it's this weird.

I can't check anything because the site is no longer resolving.
 
I'm still not going to assume it's innocent when it's this weird.
Always a safe bet. I am not saying nothing is glowing here but I don't think the 11 ip's are anything more then typical chink behavior.

I just read that Vice link. Its going to be very entertaining when word gets around to all the Qucumbers that HW is the one keeping Q from them.

Jim has the hardware and can afford links. He just can't get anyone to keep him. He should just set up some beefy TOR interconnects. With enough fast connections in to TOR they wouldn't be able to DDOS him off with out also hurting TOR. He could embed some WEB 1.0 style banner ads in to the site and play the wack-a-mole game with normienet hosting. Basically what TDS does but with an actual decent hookup to TOR so its fast.
 
There have been two or three or maybe even more killers on /b/ alone who just murdered someone and then posted pictures or stories. Since there have been many, many, many, many more who posted similar stories or fake pictures, they were usually dismissed at first as fakes.

Freddit's problem is obviously that he just hates Jim Watkins and wants revenge, not any bullshit noble quest to atone for being a pedophile piece of shit.
I can bet you that if FaggotWheels wasn't the way he was, he'd totally make an attempt on Jim's life. Hell, I'm surprised he hasn't swatted Jim or some other extreme action.
 
For as much as the Chinese love being in charge and generally hate America's virtue signaling, I'm a bit surprised AliCloud (Alibaba) actually caved here. Unless the little potato convinced them that 8chan is anti-China or something.

Oh well. Just shows you can't trust the chinks for web hosting either.

I find this entire process fascinating, and fucking depressing. I know Null has gone through similar shit with people relentlessly trying to shut down the Farms, but seeing someone getting swatted down repeatedly just as they try to set up infrastructure (without really even going public yet) is astonishing. All of the infrastructure companies are just so easy to push over.

The internet was designed from the ground up to be resilient and ensure reliable communications regardless of damage. For the longest time, censorship was considered "damage." That seems to be a thing of the past, and that's really, seriously terrifying. I know that realistically it's been about 20 years since you could legitimately post (or host) literally anything you wanted and be confident that it could stay online unless it was literally breaking the law in the country where it was hosted, but it really seems like cutting someone off is fucking trivial now.

I'd love to write a book about it all if I could convince any of the principals (Null, Hotwheels, Jim, the guy who runs Gab, etc.) to talk to me at length about how they do it (from either end -- taking down services or keeping them up despite endless machinations to stop them). Of course, revealing any of that would mean the other side could just use that knowledge to hit even harder, so fat chance of those conversations happening. A book about it in general terms (without enough detail to act on) might be interesting, but I imagine it'd be a tough sell to a publisher even without specific details.
 
Nah, this is very personal for Hotwheels. I don't think he has the same kind of animosity for Null.
 
What's the over/under on him coming after the Farms with this kind of fervor when he's done with Jim?
It seems inevitable.
We are next, just listen to this clip, from his interview on the Qanonymous podcast, its quite obvious he is going to attack the farms after he finishes trying to take 8kun down.
I won't be surprised if a shooter posts his manifesto here.
 

Attachments

We are next, just listen to this clip, from his interview on the Qanonymous podcast, its quite obvious he is going to attack the farms after he finishes trying to take 8kun down.
I won't be surprised if a shooter posts his manifesto here.

Is there a way to listen to that clip without having to download it?
 
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Nah, this is very personal for Hotwheels. I don't think he has the same kind of animosity for Null.

It's not because of Jimbo. If that was the case he would be reeeeeeeing about him right after he left in 2016, he didn't care about jimbo only after the third shooting happened. He just seems to be addicted to the dopamine of having some sort of power in life and fucking things up for other people, since you know he is a cripple who has father issues. He has done this before multiple times. Looking at Hotwheels new tweets he certainly feels as if he is important. He has gone and done a lot of big dick energy shit like doxxing Codemonkey's Wife (even though she hasn't done anything to him), and he doesn't really care about the consequences. He will do this sort of thing again to his new 'friends' if he gets the chance.

He views himself as always the victim. He was the victim in his past relationship with his ex gf, he was a victim when on Wizchan not knowing he was part of an 'ebil sexist group who hate wamen' he was a victim of Jimbo and the other 8chan administrators like Ron and Mark Mann. He has stabbed 2 communities in the back one that didn't have to do with Jimbo and he will probably do it again to another community if he gets the chance. He is quite untrustworthy and he seems to like to do this even though it may fuck him up in the future.

He will probably fuck the farms up next after the whole 8kun thing dies out.
 
He's stating the media 'stalking site' and 'dox site' mantra that is always done. However, he knows this is bullshit and being a disingenuous little faggot. Kiwifarms is a glorified internet gossip site with publicly available information that is provided by most users themselves or public records searches. And believe me, there have been a lot of wrong doxes more than there have been correct ones. I know this site attracts fucktarded individuals who don't understand we just want to shitpost and laugh at people in peace. 'Adjacent sites'. Hey, you dumb fucking nigger, anyone can do a public records search. Anyone can find this through Google and Twitter.

Now, whether he's taking this position because he wants to deplatform us or because he wants to look good for his new 'friends' is anyone's guess. Him constantly deplatforming 8chan is the only thing keeping him in the news and giving him attention. He has 0 connection to the farms and if he thinks people will give a singular fuck about him after the 8chan hype is gone, he is fucking mistaken.
 
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