US Cloudflare: "Terminating Service for 8Chan"


Terminating Service for 8Chan

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August 05, 2019 1:44AM


The mass shootings in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio are horrific tragedies. In the case of the El Paso shooting, the suspected terrorist gunman appears to have been inspired by the forum website known as 8chan. Based on evidence we've seen, it appears that he posted a screed to the site immediately before beginning his terrifying attack on the El Paso Walmart killing 20 people.

Unfortunately, this is not an isolated incident. Nearly the same thing happened on 8chan before the terror attack in Christchurch, New Zealand. The El Paso shooter specifically referenced the Christchurch incident and appears to have been inspired by the largely unmoderated discussions on 8chan which glorified the previous massacre. In a separate tragedy, the suspected killer in the Poway, California synagogue shooting also posted a hate-filled “open letter” on 8chan. 8chan has repeatedly proven itself to be a cesspool of hate.

8chan is among the more than 19 million Internet properties that use Cloudflare's service. We just sent notice that we are terminating 8chan as a customer effective at midnight tonight Pacific Time. The rationale is simple: they have proven themselves to be lawless and that lawlessness has caused multiple tragic deaths. Even if 8chan may not have violated the letter of the law in refusing to moderate their hate-filled community, they have created an environment that revels in violating its spirit.

We do not take this decision lightly. Cloudflare is a network provider. In pursuit of our goal of helping build a better internet, we’ve considered it important to provide our security services broadly to make sure as many users as possible are secure, and thereby making cyberattacks less attractive — regardless of the content of those websites. Many of our customers run platforms of their own on top of our network. If our policies are more conservative than theirs it effectively undercuts their ability to run their services and set their own policies. We reluctantly tolerate content that we find reprehensible, but we draw the line at platforms that have demonstrated they directly inspire tragic events and are lawless by design. 8chan has crossed that line. It will therefore no longer be allowed to use our services.

What Will Happen Next

Unfortunately, we have seen this situation before and so we have a good sense of what will play out. Almost exactly two years ago we made the determination to kick another disgusting site off Cloudflare's network: the Daily Stormer. That caused a brief interruption in the site's operations but they quickly came back online using a Cloudflare competitor. That competitor at the time promoted as a feature the fact that they didn't respond to legal process. Today, the Daily Stormer is still available and still disgusting. They have bragged that they have more readers than ever. They are no longer Cloudflare's problem, but they remain the Internet's problem.

I have little doubt we'll see the same happen with 8chan. While removing 8chan from our network takes heat off of us, it does nothing to address why hateful sites fester online. It does nothing to address why mass shootings occur. It does nothing to address why portions of the population feel so disenchanted they turn to hate. In taking this action we've solved our own problem, but we haven't solved the Internet's.

In the two years since the Daily Stormer what we have done to try and solve the Internet’s deeper problem is engage with law enforcement and civil society organizations to try and find solutions. Among other things, that resulted in us cooperating around monitoring potential hate sites on our network and notifying law enforcement when there was content that contained an indication of potential violence. We will continue to work within the legal process to share information when we can to hopefully prevent horrific acts of violence. We believe this is our responsibility and, given Cloudflare's scale and reach, we are hopeful we will continue to make progress toward solving the deeper problem.

Rule of Law

We continue to feel incredibly uncomfortable about playing the role of content arbiter and do not plan to exercise it often. Some have wrongly speculated this is due to some conception of the United States' First Amendment. That is incorrect. First, we are a private company and not bound by the First Amendment. Second, the vast majority of our customers, and more than 50% of our revenue, comes from outside the United States where the First Amendment and similarly libertarian freedom of speech protections do not apply. The only relevance of the First Amendment in this case and others is that it allows us to choose who we do and do not do business with; it does not obligate us to do business with everyone.

Instead our concern has centered around another much more universal idea: the Rule of Law. The Rule of Law requires policies be transparent and consistent. While it has been articulated as a framework for how governments ensure their legitimacy, we have used it as a touchstone when we think about our own policies.

We have been successful because we have a very effective technological solution that provides security, performance, and reliability in an affordable and easy-to-use way. As a result of that, a huge portion of the Internet now sits behind our network. 10% of the top million, 17% of the top 100,000, and 19% of the top 10,000 Internet properties use us today. 10% of the Fortune 1,000 are paying Cloudflare customers.

Cloudflare is not a government. While we've been successful as a company, that does not give us the political legitimacy to make determinations on what content is good and bad. Nor should it. Questions around content are real societal issues that need politically legitimate solutions. We will continue to engage with lawmakers around the world as they set the boundaries of what is acceptable in their countries through due process of law. And we will comply with those boundaries when and where they are set.

Europe, for example, has taken a lead in this area. As we've seen governments there attempt to address hate and terror content online, there is recognition that different obligations should be placed on companies that organize and promote content — like Facebook and YouTube — rather than those that are mere conduits for that content. Conduits, like Cloudflare, are not visible to users and therefore cannot be transparent and consistent about their policies.
The unresolved question is how should the law deal with platforms that ignore or actively thwart the Rule of Law? That's closer to the situation we have seen with the Daily Stormer and 8chan. They are lawless platforms. In cases like these, where platforms have been designed to be lawless and unmoderated, and where the platforms have demonstrated their ability to cause real harm, the law may need additional remedies. We and other technology companies need to work with policy makers in order to help them understand the problem and define these remedies. And, in some cases, it may mean moving enforcement mechanisms further down the technical stack.

Our Obligation

Cloudflare's mission is to help build a better Internet. At some level firing 8chan as a customer is easy. They are uniquely lawless and that lawlessness has contributed to multiple horrific tragedies. Enough is enough.

What's hard is defining the policy that we can enforce transparently and consistently going forward. We, and other technology companies like us that enable the great parts of the Internet, have an obligation to help propose solutions to deal with the parts we're not proud of. That's our obligation and we're committed to it.

Unfortunately the action we take today won’t fix hate online. It will almost certainly not even remove 8chan from the Internet. But it is the right thing to do. Hate online is a real issue. Here are some organizations that have active work to help address it:
Our whole Cloudflare team’s thoughts are with the families grieving in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio this evening.
 
Now watch as they take exception to Joshua 'Null' Moon's pointers about how they should be writing their imageboard software, and their code crashes with a classic NullPointerException. Ba-dum-tish!
(Yeah yeah, I know, wrong Java. Let me have this, I've been wanting to make that joke for ages.)

Meanwhile, Fredrick and the gang keep playing whack-a-mole with the 8kun Alibaba IPs. It's been like almost a straight week of this now, right? Sad.
View attachment 980812
(https://archive.li/eXe46)
Jimbo most likely is using alibaba as a cover and when it goes up they will be using a different type of IP. If not then lol
 
Now watch as they take exception to Joshua 'Null' Moon's pointers about how they should be writing their imageboard software, and their code crashes with a classic NullPointerException. Ba-dum-tish!
(Yeah yeah, I know, wrong Java. Let me have this, I've been wanting to make that joke for ages.)

Meanwhile, Fredrick and the gang keep playing whack-a-mole with the 8kun Alibaba IPs. It's been like almost a straight week of this now, right? Sad.

They should probably keep doing that to keep these morons chasing their own tails before coming back from somewhere else entirely.

If they aren't doing that, well, shiggy.
 
Jimbo most likely is using alibaba as a cover and when it goes up they will be using a different type of IP. If not then lol
Agreed. With as public and brazen as the spud has been about chasing down every breadcrumb he finds, there is no way this is actually real 8chan infrastructure going up and not just a smokescreen to waste the little bastard's time and energy. Jim's got him spinning his wheels barking at every IP that rolls by while he sets up the real deal somewhere else entirely, using infrastructure not vulnerable to the usual "dear sir, [guy I happen to hate] is a turrist, ban him plx or u support turrists too, kthxbye" shit all these spineless companies cave in to.

Ultimately it's probably going to end up living on a foreign domain where the registrar gives zero fucks, hosted on equipment outside the US in a country that gives zero fucks owned and operated by a company that gives zero fucks that has some decent DDoS mitigation. And once that magic stack is found that shitwheels can't tip over, he's going to throw such a cute little tantrum...
 
Cool thread. Tons of inaccuracies though gentlemen. Some of us are in it just for teh lulz and forcing some of this shit forward finally. No big conspiracies to steal traffic ROFL. What would be the benefit? Incel / assburgers traffic is worthless. The truth is Jim is just an old grifter who needs to be taken out to pasture.

Yes, I did work (for fun) on the frontend for BlockChan (https://blockchan.ca) with another dev, but I am not the main author. This is the main repo: https://github.com/ndm-inf/BlockChan - This is 100% proof of concept sandbox stuff with tons of bugs. I'll take my instance offline once it bores me. An interesting project for sure but really fucking far from my main focus. To be quite honest there are better decentralized chans being built quietly as we speak, and I'm watching them very closely...and you should as well. You have to know TPTB will be coming after this place again soon. Decentralize or RIP. Even null knows this and has said such. He calls it the 'federated model' but once you strip this idea down it's really just going to be a distributed tech stack.

Please also note, I would never buttblast KF and jaw.sh / null. Big fan assschktually. Longtime lurker.

Is there confirmation that any of the speds cheering hotwheels on are real people? I don't really follow that orbit enough to know, but it would be funny if they were just socks.

Seems pretty real to me...?
 
Cool thread. Tons of inaccuracies though gentlemen. Some of us are in it just for teh lulz and forcing some of this shit forward finally. No big conspiracies to steal traffic ROFL. What would be the benefit? Incel / assburgers traffic is worthless. The truth is Jim is just an old grifter who needs to be taken out to pasture.

Yes, I did work (for fun) on the frontend for BlockChan (https://blockchan.ca) with another dev, but I am not the main author. This is the main repo: https://github.com/ndm-inf/BlockChan - This is 100% proof of concept sandbox stuff with tons of bugs. I'll take my instance offline once it bores me. An interesting project for sure but really fucking far from my main focus. To be quite honest there are better decentralized chans being built quietly as we speak, and I'm watching them very closely...and you should as well. You have to know TPTB will be coming after this place again soon. Decentralize or RIP. Even null knows this and has said such. He calls it the 'federated model' but once you strip this idea down it's really just going to be a distributed tech stack.

Please also note, I would never buttblast KF and jaw.sh / null. Big fan assschktually. Longtime lurker.



Seems pretty real to me...?

TPTB will always fuck up a place where they don't get to control. I mean, we're preparing for the storm, when it comes. What we don't like is the sanctimonious moralizing bullshit that is clearly quite obvious. Not to mention Brenan going to HuffPo? Seriously? Jesus christ. I know the other popular 8chan boards have already formed their coalition and have no intention of going back.

But everyone in this story is a cunt, but I'm going to root for the cunt that's at least honest about what he's trying to do (Grift Boomers) rather than a disingenuous cunt pretending to become morally righteous for clout. And I can't support de-platforming, of anyone. Especially not by hypocritical, moralizing pieces of shit. Watkins might be a piece of shit too, but he's at the 4th circle of hell while Brennan is at the 9th. I mean this fuck spouted the media bullshit they always use against us as some sort of excuse. He's a hypocrite, a moralizer and pathetic for chasing clout. Nobody is going to respect that, no matter what his goals are.

Like Josh said, its hard for us not to root for someone being deplatformed because of just the trouble we go through to exist and we don't do a singular fuck to anyone.
 
You have to know TPTB will be coming after this place again soon.

What do you mean "again?" Look at the front page where you won't see one line in the following that used to be there:

1571794498433.png


1571794475441.png


The wolves are always at the door.

Like Josh said, its hard for us not to root for someone being deplatformed because of just the trouble we go through to exist and we don't do a singular fuck to anyone.

This is even in light of Watkins himself being a fucking prick. Anyone knocking down 8chan for good is coming straight for here next so fuck anyone who piles on to 8chan with a rusty pitchfork.
 
Like Josh said, its hard for us not to root for someone being deplatformed because of just the trouble we go through to exist and we don't do a singular fuck to anyone.

Fair 'nuf but I'm not particularly looking for your support Mr. Asshole. If you can't see that Jim/Ron are grifting gullible boomers and soccer moms with this Qanon bullshit, I can't help you. You think he didn't notice the massive spike in traffic on his failing image board? Finally some not-Nazi traffic to work towards monetizing. What's there left to do but shame him and block his effort to continue the scam? Anyways, I certainly don't agree with Fred on everything but we have the same end goal. I'll admit I almost fell off my chair laughing when I saw the huffpost piece for the sheer nuclear assblasting of that wretched domain. OOOF.

Anyways, I think we can all agree Fred wins hands down 'Troll of the Decade Award 2010-2020'. Prove me wrong.
 
Brennan seems like he was always a "morally righteous" sort. He's just gone from championing free speech to championing something else. Communism or something. He's never been mentally well, for obvious reasons.

Fair 'nuf but I'm not particularly looking for your support Mr. Asshole. If you can't see that Jim/Ron are grifting gullible boomers and soccer moms with this Qanon bullshit, I can't help you.
He just said that doesn't care how the old fuck is grifting boomers. Go shut down a church.
 
Anyways, I think we can all agree Fred wins hands down 'Troll of the Decade Award 2010-2020'. Prove me wrong.
Trump is the troll the the decade. Hotwheels is at best a spited former business partner that is wasting the last likely years of his life to settle a score with no upside for him.

Just stop, you are not helping your case, you are not earning internet cool points. Just, stop.
 
Brennan seems like he was always a "morally righteous" sort. He's just gone from championing free speech to championing something else. Communism or something. He's never been mentally well, for obvious reasons.


He just said that doesn't care how the old fuck is grifting boomers. Go shut down a church.
He should champion for Weight Watchers next.
 
Fair 'nuf but I'm not particularly looking for your support Mr. Asshole. If you can't see that Jim/Ron are grifting gullible boomers and soccer moms with this Qanon bullshit, I can't help you. You think he didn't notice the massive spike in traffic on his failing image board? Finally some not-Nazi traffic to work towards monetizing. What's there left to do but shame him and block his effort to continue the scam? Anyways, I certainly don't agree with Fred on everything but we have the same end goal. I'll admit I almost fell off my chair laughing when I saw the huffpost piece for the sheer nuclear assblasting of that wretched domain. OOOF.

Anyways, I think we can all agree Fred wins hands down 'Troll of the Decade Award 2010-2020'. Prove me wrong.

Oh, I see it:

He just said that doesn't care how the old fuck is grifting boomers. Go shut down a church.

If you care about people gifting boomers, shut down phishing scams and fake phone calls. They will gift more boomers in an hour than Jim will do in his entire life. And those guys aren't doing just pocket change. Don't come to me and pretend this is some great fucking moral crusade. Be honest. If you want to fuck with him, just say it. Don't pretend that 'oh, we care about these delusional boomers who will pay anyone who pretends to be Q' because you don't. You just do not. How many QAnon whales do you think he has? That will actually pay? Like, low double digits, maybe? Please. Fuck, how long do you think before someone gets the idea and sets up a website to try and exploit these poor Q Boomers? Will you go after them too? Doubt it.

You want to fuck with the guy, fine. Be honest. But you're coming at this from a moralizing angle, which normalizes it, which fucks literally everyone struggling to preserve the last vestiges of a sanitized internet. Say you're fucking with the guy because you don't like him, fine. Mazel Tov.

But I don't buy the sanctimonious act for a second.
 
Cool thread. Tons of inaccuracies though gentlemen. Some of us are in it just for teh lulz and forcing some of this shit forward finally. No big conspiracies to steal traffic ROFL. What would be the benefit? Incel / assburgers traffic is worthless. The truth is Jim is just an old grifter who needs to be taken out to pasture.

Yes, I did work (for fun) on the frontend for BlockChan (https://blockchan.ca) with another dev, but I am not the main author. This is the main repo: https://github.com/ndm-inf/BlockChan - This is 100% proof of concept sandbox stuff with tons of bugs. I'll take my instance offline once it bores me. An interesting project for sure but really fucking far from my main focus. To be quite honest there are better decentralized chans being built quietly as we speak, and I'm watching them very closely...and you should as well. You have to know TPTB will be coming after this place again soon. Decentralize or RIP. Even null knows this and has said such. He calls it the 'federated model' but once you strip this idea down it's really just going to be a distributed tech stack.

Please also note, I would never buttblast KF and jaw.sh / null. Big fan assschktually. Longtime lurker.



Seems pretty real to me...?
Fuck off, Canadian.
 
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