Fallout series

[XL xQgg?QcQCaTYDMjqoDnYpG]

Do you really wan Bethesda to try doing vehicles though?

is this achievable natty?

 

[Friendly Primarina]

View attachment 4289999
is this achievable natty?

So someone alluded to this earlier in the thread and I'm consumed by one question: why?

 

[Serbian Peacekeepers]

So someone alluded to this earlier in the thread and I'm consumed by one question: why?

It was easier to make the Tram car a hat and make a animation that put the camera inside the car for the cutscene then trying to make a actually moving tram car. Every game has hacky things like this, but Bethesda gives us the tools to see their hacky solutions.

 

[Ser Prize]

Do you really wan Bethesda to try doing vehicles though?

They did horses.

 

[Snekposter]

As someone who detests the Legion, my dislike for the Legion, or more specifically, how they are written comes from the fact that they are treated with kiddie-gloves in terms of realism. The NCR have realistic logistical issues that makes them unable to properly wage war and defend their territory. The Legion meanwhile manages to become a widespread threat entirely through the power of a having a go-getter attitude and a big book of roman words.

Worked for the original Caesar in Gaul.

More seriously, the Legion works because Caesar is a fucking autist who was reading military shit as soon as he could and as such had a grasp on things like logistics and weapons maintenance, and leveled that and everything else up on tribals used to raiding instead of conquest.

NCR grunts are few, scattered and disorganized despite having an entire national apparatus supporting them, with access to radios and a long-standing military tradition that should help in coordinating a military effort.

They actually don't have that tradition since they were a complete reboot of government even though they're making steps towards that sort of thing, and they're tied down with things like brush wars in Baja, the Brahmin Barons engaging in low-scale cattle wars, and oh, a fucking war against the main strength of the BoS in their home territories. Vegas is barely settled territory by NCR standards, and on the very edge of their supply chains.

You're not wrong about the Legion being far too good for what they're equipped with, considering a few football pads give as much armor for less weight than leather armor, and more HP.

 

[DaBigBopper]

Worked for the original Caesar in Gaul.

More seriously, the Legion works because Caesar is a fucking autist who was reading military shit as soon as he could and as such had a grasp on things like logistics and weapons maintenance, and leveled that and everything else up on tribals used to raiding instead of conquest.

They actually don't have that tradition since they were a complete reboot of government even though they're making steps towards that sort of thing, and they're tied down with things like brush wars in Baja, the Brahmin Barons engaging in low-scale cattle wars, and oh, a fucking war against the main strength of the BoS in their home territories. Vegas is barely settled territory by NCR standards, and on the very edge of their supply chains.

You're not wrong about the Legion being far too good for what they're equipped with, considering a few football pads give as much armor for less weight than leather armor, and more HP.

@Hagfish

The Legion works due to the NCR being spread thin and corrupt. Caesar's whole character is frustration with the NCR government being a waste of fucking resources that's willing the cutoff it's nose to spite it's face (the entire Ranger's subquest is Hanlon being so tried of it all that he's willing to kill a few of his own to let discontent form).

The Legion is pushing in due to NCR announcing themselves as the rulers and then being fucked by all the problems that come with Vegas. The Fiends, the Khans, the Followers, the Brotherhood, the Vipers, House, the Three Families, random NCR citizens, the Boomers, and everyone else has a default stance of fuck the NCR. They're not popular and are trying to be. The Legion goes in trying to break everything around it.

 

[Hagfish]

Worked for the original Caesar in Gaul.

More seriously, the Legion works because Caesar is a fucking autist who was reading military shit as soon as he could and as such had a grasp on things like logistics and weapons maintenance, and leveled that and everything else up on tribals used to raiding instead of conquest.

The problems is that the roman empire was so much more than just big words, philosophy and military tactics.
They were wedged into the middle of the mediterranean, the biggest trade network at the time. They had the best weaponry and armor, but more importantly was logistics. the most important military invention the romans ever used were roads.

Contrast that with caesar's legion which behaves more like a weird mixture of comanche tribes and mongolian horde, minus the powerful trade routes of the latter (and no, occassional caravans are not enough to sustain a burgeoning empire). And as we saw with the mongols, when your entire military strategy is built around overwhelming your enemy, exercising extreme brutality and attacking quickly, you will inevitably wind up getting fucked the moment your foe starts fighting defensively, which is what the NCR does.

They actually don't have that tradition since they were a complete reboot of government even though they're making steps towards that sort of thing, and they're tied down with things like brush wars in Baja, the Brahmin Barons engaging in low-scale cattle wars, and oh, a fucking war against the main strength of the BoS in their home territories. Vegas is barely settled territory by NCR standards, and on the very edge of their supply chains.
You're not wrong about the Legion being far too good for what they're equipped with, considering a few football pads give as much armor for less weight than leather armor, and more HP.

They've existed for nearly a century, there should be a tradition at this point.
And im not arguing against the NCR being realistically weakened by realistic logistical and administrative issues, i am pointing out how the NCR has to deal with realistic problems whilst Legion soldiers are fending off super mutants, deathclaws, raiders and the NCR using football gear and primitive weaponry.

All settings, stories and what-have-you will have factions be treated disproportionally based entirely on the writer's tastes and intentions, but the disproportionate gap between Legion Plot armor and NCR reverse plot armor is downright wacky.
an issue that i usually solve with mods.

The Legion works due to the NCR being spread thin and corrupt. Caesar's whole character is frustration with the NCR government being a waste of fucking resources that's willing the cutoff it's nose to spite it's face (the entire Ranger's subquest is Hanlon being so tried of it all that he's willing to kill a few of his own to let discontent form).

The Legion is pushing in due to NCR announcing themselves as the rulers and then being fucked by all the problems that come with Vegas. The Fiends, the Khans, the Followers, the Brotherhood, the Vipers, House, the Three Families, random NCR citizens, the Boomers, and everyone else has a default stance of fuck the NCR. They're not popular and are trying to be. The Legion goes in trying to break everything around it.

I repeat: my problem is not with the weaknesses of the NCR, because they are realistic.
My problem is the strengths of the legion, because they are unrealistic and built entirely around plot armor. Everything the NCR does is scrutinized, everything the Legion does is brushed under the rug as "nessecary evil", fraught with whataboutisms.

Having people complain about taxes whilst Caesar is busy crucifying an entire town's worth of people is dumb
Having spearchuckers in football armor who fight with machetes routinely make mincemeat out of even skilled NCR personell is dumb
Having people act as if Bitter Springs makes the NCR just as bad as the Legion when the Legion commits whole-sale slaughter and enslavement of entire towns on the daily is dumb

And thats without going into how half the population of the mojave might have some issues with the legion's view on women, or any men who aren't soldiers, scientists or farmers.

the NCR are realistically weak, the Legion can deflect bullets through the sheer power of Hegelian dialectics.

 

[ColonelCadaver]

The problems is that the roman empire was so much more than just big words, philosophy and military tactics.

Yeah, dude, it was more than a group of raiders in skirts using old ass american football equipment painted to resemble late stage roman legions. That's a big ncr shill based entirely around some convenient misconceptions and assumptions about a faction you don't really know 100% for sure. Like, it's all over the place.
>No enough powerful trade routes to maintain empire
Are you even sure about that? They kinda hold big ass chunk of territory with civilized settlements and rural areas alike. There's so much land that "muh trade routes" shouldn't even be that much of a problem. That's like the entirety of "dustbowl" up to colorado river. I'm not even counting the possibility of some big time river trading across the colorado river.
Y'know, like, people actually forget some big time facts about what's NCR is really about, clinging unto the entire "muh amerikuh" aspect of this faction. Lemme spill it out:
>Land-based agricultural empire with reliance on landlords and land trade routes
>No maritime trade
>No big-time arms industry, reliance on maintaining old stuff until it breaks
>Scavenged (not produced) armored and logistical vehicles
>Replacement of damaged trains, production of artillery and stuff's out of question
>Small arms beyond rifles and MG's are likely to be scavenged rather than produced
Like, that's the glorified mirrored image of caesar's legion that fell not too far of it's tree. Ironically, OG US of A is well known for it's roman republic larp which translates well enough into the fnv universe.

 

[Saturnalia-1918]

The problems is that the roman empire was so much more than just big words, philosophy and military tactics.
They were wedged into the middle of the mediterranean, the biggest trade network at the time. They had the best weaponry and armor, but more importantly was logistics. the most important military invention the romans ever used were roads.

Contrast that with caesar's legion which behaves more like a weird mixture of comanche tribes and mongolian horde, minus the powerful trade routes of the latter (and no, occassional caravans are not enough to sustain a burgeoning empire). And as we saw with the mongols, when your entire military strategy is built around overwhelming your enemy, exercising extreme brutality and attacking quickly, you will inevitably wind up getting fucked the moment your foe starts fighting defensively, which is what the NCR does.

It's somewhat handwaved by in-game sources that the Legion is bringing their full military might to the Mojave War while the NCR is treating the conflict like a Vietnam esque war. It's seen by the population as a far off vanity project of Kimball and as such the average NCR citizen doesn't view the conflict as a life and death struggle like the Legion does.

So the argument goes the Legion has much more assets and manpower in the Mojave while treating the conflict much more seriously than the NCR .

They've existed for nearly a century, there should be a tradition at this point.
And im not arguing against the NCR being realistically weakened by realistic logistical and administrative issues, i am pointing out how the NCR has to deal with realistic problems whilst Legion soldiers are fending off super mutants, deathclaws, raiders and the NCR using football gear and primitive weaponry.

Like it has been pointed out, the Legion has access and utilize much more advanced weapons than pointed sticks. They are even trying to purchase energy weapons from the Van Graffs.

The Legion doesn't want a situation described by the I-88 Arms Merchant, where the NCR is incapable of giving their soldiers standard body armor leaving these green soldiers with barely two weeks of training with no armor facing a Legionary soldier who is far better trained and equipped (better football pads than nothing at all).

All settings, stories and what-have-you will have factions be treated disproportionally based entirely on the writer's tastes and intentions, but the disproportionate gap between Legion Plot armor and NCR reverse plot armor is downright wacky.
an issue that i usually solve with mods.


I repeat: my problem is not with the weaknesses of the NCR, because they are realistic.
My problem is the strengths of the legion, because they are unrealistic and built entirely around plot armor. Everything the NCR does is scrutinized, everything the Legion does is brushed under the rug as "nessecary evil", fraught with whataboutisms.

Having people complain about taxes whilst Caesar is busy crucifying an entire town's worth of people is dumb
Having spearchuckers in football armor who fight with machetes routinely make mincemeat out of even skilled NCR personell is dumb
Having people act as if Bitter Springs makes the NCR just as bad as the Legion when the Legion commits whole-sale slaughter and enslavement of entire towns on the daily is dumb

I mean, the only people who treat the Bitter Springs massacre as this humongous tragedy are the Khans (the people who experienced the massacre) and the PTSD riddled veterans involved with carrying out the killing.

And thats without going into how half the population of the mojave might have some issues with the legion's view on women, or any men who aren't soldiers, scientists or farmers.

The issue with the Mojave inhabitants is that the factions are either too weak to make a true difference (like the Kings or the Follower's of the Apocalypse), too isolated (the Boomers and the Brotherhood), or too opposed to NCR rule (Mr House, average Mojave resident) to truly want to work together with the NCR to keep the Legion out. To the residents of the Mojave it is helping one invader keep another out.

Not to mention that the Legion is actively subverting Mojave factions to work for the Legion like the Khans, Omerta, and Fiends. Further weakening the NCR and gaining a home field advantage.

the NCR are realistically weak, the Legion can deflect bullets through the sheer power of Hegelian dialectics.

 

[God of Nothing]

Legion is just too stronk. Very based. Much wow. NCR female troopers see them and kneel as their male counterparts are torn apart by their bare fists. You cannot deny this.

 

[Blitzsneed]

Played a lot of Fallout, NV was very good, but the OG is still the best in every aspect. Story, atmosphere, etc.
Excluding the grid system. That one was ass.

 

[HeyYou]

Worked for the original Caesar in Gaul.

It barely worked for Caesar in Gaul. The reason he was busy fighting rebellions in conquered territories half the time was because the legions were getting their supplies by demanding it from the local tribes, and since Caesar was continually contriving excuses to continue his wars the tribes who already often didn't like the Romans were getting sick of having their shit taken from them. The thing is, as much as we know how important Caesar is now, he was only a part of a much bigger and well oiled machine that had existed for hundreds of years at the time.

Caesar in New Vegas is the founder and heart of the Legion and as I've said in the thread before we're not given much information on what exactly the Legion is like back in their own territories. By Caesar's own admission his Legion is basically a wandering, nomadic tribe like the Huns, but we're also told that back in Arizona the Legion has an actual functioning state and their cities are even more safe than in the NCR. So...which is it? If the Legion has basically brought their full strength to bear in the Mojave, how exactly are they maintaining things back east? If we had actual Legion territory to see, this would be less of an issue and it's probably the biggest thing that the game is lacking. And New Vegas Caesar could be supplying himself the same way historical Caesar did but I don't think it's ever commented on one way or another.

 

[Zaryiu2]

I assume all attempts at restoring Legion stuff was stopped by the usual suspects?

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole 2]

the lack of children can be moreso blamed on the fact that there arent a whole lot of ways you can make child npc's interesting, especially in a setting that deals with grittier subject matters.

Fallout has a troubled history with children. In Fallout 2 you could blast the thieving bastards which led to a moral outcry, as part of a patch they made them invisible. In F3 they played it very safe with Lamplight(I think it was called?). I don't know how it would work out in the wasteland if the player could use a child to tank a deathclaw.

 

[Mola Ram]

Fallout has a troubled history with children. In Fallout 2 you could blast the thieving bastards which led to a moral outcry, as part of a patch they made them invisible

This isn't quite accurate. First of all, you could kill children in both of the old school Fallouts, which led to a lot of quests being closed off and bounty hunters coming after you (in the second game, they scaled up with your level and eventually became virtually unbeatable, armed with pulse weapons and the like). The invisible kids thing wasn't a patch, but something required in the European version if they wanted to sell the game at all. The funny part is the kids were still there, so in The Den you'd just have inventory vanish as invisible pickpockets made off with your stuff.

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole 2]

This isn't quite accurate. First of all, you could kill children in both of the old school Fallouts, which led to a lot of quests being closed off and bounty hunters coming after you (in the second game, they scaled up with your level and eventually became virtually unbeatable, armed with pulse weapons and the like). The invisible kids thing wasn't a patch, but something required in the European version if they wanted to sell the game at all. The funny part is the kids were still there, so in The Den you'd just have inventory vanish as invisible pickpockets made off with your stuff.

Huh, I could have sworn they made them invisible in a patch because I remember having visible kids and then I had invisible kids. I have the US version so maybe I got hold of a euro no-cd crack or they offered euro patches on their website.

Yep, just looked at the site via wayback machine and they had euro specific patches that seems to work across regional versions, even the English Low Violence version that I didn't know existed.

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

Im still pissed that Fallout 76 wasted the only chance anybody would ever have to make an Appalachia setting game by removing all NPCs.

 

[Alaric the Visigoth]

Anyone want to see a fallout game set in Texas or Tennessee. Both of those states could offer radically different setting that'll keep the series from being stale.

 

[Shidoen]

Anyone want to see a fallout game set in Texas or Tennessee. Both of those states could offer radically different setting that'll keep the series from being stale.

Fallout in the South would be tight. Inbreds from Point Lookout down in good ole Al and Gatorclaws swimmin in the Mississippi.

 

[Overcast]

Anyone want to see a fallout game set in Texas or Tennessee. Both of those states could offer radically different setting that'll keep the series from being stale.

*After beating the final boss*

Speech 100: Don't mess with Texas.