Game of Thrones Thread

Kyria the Great said:
Well they only became stupid after D & D ran out of book. It is just the showrunners are tools that can't write themselves out of a paper bag if they can't adapt something.
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all the other Lannisters are idiots. Kevan, Lancel, Cersey, etc. the only 2 with half a brain are his 2 boys, and they both have very deep flaws that make them act like total idiots from time to time. he doesnt have a heir who would be able to lead a great house. the other great houses all have pretty good children.
 
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Good to hear so much appreciation for Charles Dance's Tywin. He certainly was one of the main reasons for me sticking around with the show even though I disliked most of the characters and some of the writing in the beginning.
 
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I still like Jaime, as well as his relationship with Brienne. But it pisses me off how much they yank around his character. Jaime's story was leading up to redemption and honor. Having him go back to Cersei to inevitably get killed off is lame as fuck. Jaime deserved better. The Goldhand the Good arc deserved better.
 
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Mola Ram said:
I don't know what it's like in the books, but the show never recovered from losing Tywin as the heavy. Ramsay Bolton was a lunatic (Roose had potential but was underused); the High Sparrow was great but only got where he was through Cersei's incompetence (and never had a chance of making it through to the end); Cersei herself just gets drunker and smugger as the series decays. Charles Dance was the real pillar that held up the realm.
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In the books Roose takes over fairly effectively as the North's answer to Tywin and Euron is in the process of taking over as big bad overall.

Ramsay is just as much a psycho in the books as the show (although somewhat less cartoony with it), but in the books being a psycho is actually a huge drawback as it should be. Also Ramsay is afraid of his father. As he should be. Roose is a scary motherfucker.
 
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Marco Fucko said:
Since we're talking Tywin can we appreciate how perfect this scene is?
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It's original to the show. So is this:

Every chapter in the books is written from a character perspective, and Jaime wasn't a chapter character until book 3. Tywin was never a chapter character. Robert Baratheon was never a chapter character. Barristan only gets chapter characters in book 5. We didn't get to see this stuff because we didn't get these characters' perspectives.

And that made me slightly concerned, since one of the points of the books is to make a distinction between how a character is perceived and what's going on in their heads. As a reader, I thought Jaime was just a preening arrogant, child-murdering dickhead until book 3, when suddenly we got to understand things from inside his skull, and how he changed from possibly the greatest Westerosi swordsman to having lost his sword hand. The change isn't as dramatic in the show, because both of these scenes give the impression that Jaime has another side to him, and that the story told about him might not be the whole story.

Even so, when I first saw these new scenes, and the quality of the dialogue and performances, I felt super confident that one of my favourite book series was in very safe hands.

Mola Ram said:
I don't know what it's like in the books, but the show never recovered from losing Tywin as the heavy.
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It's widely held that the books drop in quality after book 3, and I've been fairly sure for a very long time that Martin has no fucking clue how to wrap up the story. He claims to have an ending, but he's got no fucking idea how to get there. So the show was always going to be in trouble as the seasons went on. I was happy enough to see what I'd read adapted to screen, and that was awesome for the first four seasons. After that, it was an inevitable clusterfuck.

But damn, I could never have predicted just how bad things would get. This season is something else. It's now some of the trashiest television going, in a supposed golden age of television. And that's fine, I guess. I'm not too high-brow to not enjoy a bit of trash television. But considering where we started, it's tragically and hilariously impressive how much potential has been squandered.
 
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cecograph said:
This scene is original to the show. So is this:

Every chapter in the books is written from a character perspective, and Jaime wasn't a chapter character until book 3. Tywin was never a chapter character. Robert Baratheon was never a chapter character. Barristan only gets chapter characters in book 5. We didn't get to see this stuff because we didn't get these characters' perspectives.

And that made me slightly concerned, since one of the points of the books is to make a distinction between how a character is perceived and what's going on in their heads. As a reader, I thought Jaime was just a preening arrogant, child-murdering dickhead until book 3, when suddenly we got to understand things from inside his skull, and how he changed from possibly the greatest Westerosi swordsman to having lost his sword hand. The change isn't as dramatic in the show, because both of these scenes give the impression that Jaime has another side to him, and that the story told about him might not be the whole story.

Even so, when I first saw these new scenes, and the quality of the dialogue and performances, I felt super confident that one of my favourite book series was in very safe hands.

It's widely held that the books drop in quality after book 3, and I've been fairly sure for a very long time that Martin has no fucking clue how to wrap up the story. He claims to have an ending, but he's got no fucking idea how to get there. So the show was always going to be in trouble as the seasons went on. I was happy enough to see what I'd read adapted to screen, and that was awesome for the first four seasons. After that, it was an inevitable clusterfuck.

But damn, I could never have predicted just how bad things would get. This season is something else. It's now some of the trashiest television going, in a supposed golden age of television. And that's fine, I guess. I'm not too high-brow to not enjoy a bit of trash television. But considering where we started, it's tragically and hilariously impressive how much potential has been squandered.
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People have been telling me to get into this for as long as I can remember, especially when I mention that I'm a fan of Berserk. And honestly, it's reading stuff like this that makes it completely uninteresting to me.

Book or screen, why would I waste time in something that gets amazing only to drop off immensely or just never finishes? I can't think of a worse use of time and a harder disappointment to endure.

GoT was always comical to me too, in how I knew and talked to so many people who admitted they either found it boring or only watched for one character (or the tits fanservice), even before the drop-off. I again asked them at the time why they bothered and they all but confirmed what I thought "Because everyone else is."

That's a big yawn for me.
 
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Guts Gets Some said:
People have been telling me to get into this for as long as I can remember, especially when I mention that I'm a fan of Berserk. And honestly, it's reading stuff like this that makes it completely uninteresting to me.

Book or screen, why would I waste time in something that gets amazing only to drop off immensely or just never finishes? I can't think of a worse use of time and a harder disappointment to endure.

GoT was always comical to me too, in how I knew and talked to so many people who admitted they either found it boring or only watched for one character (or the tits fanservice), even before the drop-off. I again asked them at the time why they bothered and they all but confirmed for what I thought "Because everyone else is."

That's a big yawn for me.
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Fair play. I read the first three books in 2002, when there was no drop off and no reason to think the series couldn't conclude. I still have a lot of love for them, but I came to terms with the idea that it wasn't going to conclude back in 2006 when the fourth book came out.
 
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Just to be a party pooper on the whole Charles Dance Party, although I did very much enjoy tywin, I would like to remind everyone of the movie last action hero.
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So he's not perfect.

Having cersie somehow controlling king's landing still, after all her foolishness, is the show's greatest failing. She did so much to piss of the people, who were already shown to be rather fickle. Remember back when Joffrey was king and Cercei was afraid of the peasants? Remember Joffrey was well liked by the people, compared to her.

But she empowers a church cult to take over, destroying all the alcohol, beating up the prostitutes and customers, and enforcing their theocracy. Somehow, the people are OK with this. Then, that church imprisons her, and the walk of shame shows the people fucking hate her. She then has her knight murder a few people at random, her son (The King, remember) publically says she must stand trial instead of a trial by combat, and face justice. Then, she blows up the fucking church, the king is dead (How wouldn't the people assume she killed him?) she's openly fucking her brother, admitting the lannisters were never fucking legitimate contenders for the throne, marrying a pirate king from rape island best known for their ineffective rebellions... and the people are cool with it?

Same thing pretty much with dorne. Now apparently they've got a new prince, after they noticed they no longer had a king. I'm gonna guess the last king's guards are gonna be in a bit of trouble for their lackluster performance...

Also, nobody ever thought of the idea "What if crossbows, but even bigger"? Like, it's just that easy to kill dragons? How the fuck did they conquer westeros the first time? The show should have worked up to that at least, showing qyburn having to overcome some engineering challenges, therefore establishing why nobody ever did this before, and also making them seem less out of fucking nowhere.

Finally.... why the fuck wouldn't cercei just have the archers murder the entire fucking leadership of the opposition while they're idiotically standing at her walls bristling with archers and giant ballistas? This is the one time she's going to be honorable?

The problem is now that everything's so divorced from logical cause and effect we all know literally anything could happen, regardless of how little sense it makes. Internal consistency makes it much easier to accept what's going on.
 
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Mola Ram said:
I was only talking about GoT, but I'm sure if there's anything watchable in that crapfest, he'll be responsible for it.

If you really want to savor a Charles Dance performance, watch The Golden Child and marvel at how he restrains himself from strangling Eddie Murphy as the latter openly mocks the script.

EDIT: Oh, Christ, Daenerys is Hillary Clinton? I knew the hot takes would be exceptional, but I clearly undershot how exceptional they'd be. Besides, Cersei is closer to Hillary, what with the marriage of political convenience, insane vindictiveness, total incompetence, and the drinking, so much drinking.
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I got you fam
 

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Corbin Dallas Multipass said:
Just to be a party pooper on the whole Charles Dance Party, although I did very much enjoy tywin, I would like to remind everyone of the movie last action hero.View attachment 751537

So he's not perfect.

Having cersie somehow controlling king's landing still, after all her foolishness, is the show's greatest failing. She did so much to piss of the people, who were already shown to be rather fickle. Remember back when Joffrey was king and Cercei was afraid of the peasants? Remember Joffrey was well liked by the people, compared to her.

But she empowers a church cult to take over, destroying all the alcohol, beating up the prostitutes and customers, and enforcing their theocracy. Somehow, the people are OK with this. Then, that church imprisons her, and the walk of shame shows the people fucking hate her. She then has her knight murder a few people at random, her son (The King, remember) publically says she must stand trial instead of a trial by combat, and face justice. Then, she blows up the fucking church, the king is dead (How wouldn't the people assume she killed him?) she's openly fucking her brother, admitting the lannisters were never fucking legitimate contenders for the throne, marrying a pirate king from rape island best known for their ineffective rebellions... and the people are cool with it?

Same thing pretty much with dorne. Now apparently they've got a new prince, after they noticed they no longer had a king. I'm gonna guess the last king's guards are gonna be in a bit of trouble for their lackluster performance...

Also, nobody ever thought of the idea "What if crossbows, but even bigger"? Like, it's just that easy to kill dragons? How the fuck did they conquer westeros the first time? The show should have worked up to that at least, showing qyburn having to overcome some engineering challenges, therefore establishing why nobody ever did this before, and also making them seem less out of fucking nowhere.

Finally.... why the fuck wouldn't cercei just have the archers murder the entire fucking leadership of the opposition while they're idiotically standing at her walls bristling with archers and giant ballistas? This is the one time she's going to be honorable?

The problem is now that everything's so divorced from logical cause and effect we all know literally anything could happen, regardless of how little sense it makes. Internal consistency makes it much easier to accept what's going on.
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it's not that much divorced from reality.

From some vids I've seen by people who actually read the books, Cersei isn't the first one to wipe out religious leadership with their temple, so that's kosher.

Peasants by themselves are shit. What matters is the leadership, especially as charismatic as Sparrow dude. Wipe out leadership and sheep will follow the new shepherd.

Dorne are special, non-autistic. They never bent their knee to Aegon the conqueror. It's in their motto or something. They also killed a dragon with a giant bolt through the head, so the scorpions are well forgotten device that was used on dragons before.

I'm sure that Cersei would love to shoot Dany if she could, but distance is kind of far and be the time arrows reach them, if they were within the reach, some dudes had shields and it would all be nothing burger.
 
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