Game of Thrones Thread

[Mola Ram]

1) Spoil the books.

Excuse me. Bringing Jon back is spoiling the books. So is killing Stannis, burning Shireen (which I'd remind them they blamed on GRRM when people got pissed about it), and, uh, gee, torching King's Landing. What weak bullshit.

 

[The Bovinian Derivative]

The lesson from GoT to take away is no matter how good your beginning or middle is, if the end of the show is a shit show it doesn't matter. I dont think theres another show that fell as far and ended as poorly as GoTs did. I mean, halfway through season 8 everyone was watching just to be a conpletionist and to see the trainwreck happen in real time. I'd be really surprised if D&D ever get their own show again tbh. Anybody giving them money might as well burn it.

And not only the ending killed GOT, it killed the half dozen prequel shows HBO planned. Not to mention the only prequel pilot HBO produced so far, Bloodmoon, was so awful they cancelled it outright. Not sure how House of the Dragon will fare but launching a prequel after all the hype died down and the coof-delay is a recipe for disaster. It's an all-encompassing dumpster fire.

 

[Getting tard comed]

And not only the ending killed GOT, it killed the half dozen prequel shows HBO planned. Not to mention the only prequel pilot HBO produced so far, Bloodmoon, was so awful they cancelled it outright. Not sure how House of the Dragon will fare but launching a prequel after all the hype died down and the coof-delay is a recipe for disaster. It's an all-encompassing dumpster fire.

This reminds me of TWD, somebody was talking about how the show has gotten better now. It doesn't matter at all, most people are never giving that show a shot again. It's way harder to regain a lost customer than it is to get a new one. The chances any new GoT show, prequel or otherwise, is going to have anywhere close to the audience that GoT had is so small the smart business decision for HBO is to just let it die if they arent going to redo season 8.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

The lesson from GoT to take away is no matter how good your beginning or middle is, if the end of the show is a shit show it doesn't matter. I dont think theres another show that fell as far and ended as poorly as GoTs did. I mean, halfway through season 8 everyone was watching just to be a conpletionist and to see the trainwreck happen in real time. I'd be really surprised if D&D ever get their own show again tbh. Anybody giving them money might as well burn it.

I think, with a bit of patience, one might even come up with shows with a terrible start, that stick the landing and end up being beloved for that alone. Gunbuster is something like that to an extend. Starts out as goofy girls in super-robots show and ends up pretty neat with a tearjerker ending.
Arguably, the first season of Breaking Bad was one of these things too. I mean, I enjoyed S1 a lot and it got more and more amazing with every season, but some people say they feel like S1 is a chore to sit through.

 

[LordofTendons]

The lesson from GoT to take away is no matter how good your beginning or middle is, if the end of the show is a shit show it doesn't matter. I dont think theres another show that fell as far and ended as poorly as GoTs did. I mean, halfway through season 8 everyone was watching just to be a conpletionist and to see the trainwreck happen in real time. I'd be really surprised if D&D ever get their own show again tbh. Anybody giving them money might as well burn it.

They're doing something for Netflix right now. I can't be bothered to look it up. All I remember is that it didn't interest me and I wouldn't watch it even if it did, because it involves those two.

This reminds me of TWD, somebody was talking about how the show has gotten better now. It doesn't matter at all, most people are never giving that show a shot again. It's way harder to regain a lost customer than it is to get a new one. The chances any new GoT show, prequel or otherwise, is going to have anywhere close to the audience that GoT had is so small the smart business decision for HBO is to just let it die if they arent going to redo season 8.

Once in a while Poke the Dragon or whatever it is pops up in the news and DH expresses interest in it. And I tell him that I'll torrent it for him if he wants to see it that much. I'm not falling for this BS again.Even if they redid season 8 it wouldn't be enough. Too much time has passed and I've moved on to being disappointed by other things.

 

[IAmNotAlpharius]

And not only the ending killed GOT, it killed the half dozen prequel shows HBO planned. Not to mention the only prequel pilot HBO produced so far, Bloodmoon, was so awful they cancelled it outright. Not sure how House of the Dragon will fare but launching a prequel after all the hype died down and the coof-delay is a recipe for disaster. It's an all-encompassing dumpster fire.

Yeah they kinda killed the golden goose. Part of me is wondering though if D&D aren’t the only lolcows but also GRRM and some of his hardcore fans in general. GRRM is good at characterization but at this point I highly doubt he’s going to get anymore books done in his lifetime and it feels like he’s just milking his fans at this point and a lot are in denial about GRRM dragging his feet. Also reading over his blog I’ve been getting a lot of “I’m working on it!” vibes.

 

[DeadFish]

They really screwed the pooch with this one. Hoky fuck what with dipshits doing stuff half ass these days?

 

[Mola Ram]

Yeah they kinda killed the golden goose. Part of me is wondering though if D&D aren’t the only lolcows but also GRRM and some of his hardcore fans in general. GRRM is good at characterization but at this point I highly doubt he’s going to get anymore books done in his lifetime and it feels like he’s just milking his fans at this point and a lot are in denial about GRRM dragging his feet. Also reading over his blog I’ve been getting a lot of “I’m working on it!” vibes.

In the last three years, I, a total amateur writer, have churned out over 2000 pages of draft work for three separate books, something on the order of 700,000 words.

GRRM has had over a decade to finish Winds of Winter, and he gets paid for this shit. That book is never coming.

 

[IAmNotAlpharius]

In the last three years, I, a total amateur writer, have churned out over 2000 pages of draft work for three separate books, something on the order of 700,000 words.

GRRM has had over a decade to finish Winds of Winter, and he gets paid for this shit. That book is never coming.

He could’ve hired some ghost writers. Imo there is nothing wrong with hiring ghost writers especially if one doesn’t have enough time or is elderly. At this point that’s what’s going to happen, once he dies his estate will hire a bunch of ghost writers to finish it off anyways. In a way, he could be like a director of a movie but instead of directing a film he could just direct others on what to write but he’s either too lazy, too cheap, or too prideful to admit he can’t do it by himself anymore. At this point he may as well see that it’s done one way or the other and get paid before he dies. Instead he’s going to die from beetus and his estate will cobble together several books shortly thereafter based on his notes. The former at least he could direct the story the way he wants but it requires work and sucking up some of his pride.

However, my guess is he just doesn’t feel like working but can’t admit it. He could be tired of the series or perhaps now that he has made bank he just doesn’t feel motivated anymore. He’s probably slightly on the spectrum and just feels like daddling. I also suspect that since he’s become famous, his editors can’t really tard wrangle him anymore into working. Whatever the reason he’s pulling a spoony but instead of being a YouTuber it’s a series that once rivaled LOTR, Star Wars, and other IPs for prominence in pop culture.

 

[Absolutego]

He could’ve hired some ghost writers. Imo there is nothing wrong with hiring ghost writers especially if one doesn’t have enough time or is elderly. At this point that’s what’s going to happen, once he dies his estate will hire a bunch of ghost writers to finish it off anyways. In a way, he could be like a director of a movie but instead of directing a film he could just direct others on what to write but he’s either too lazy, too cheap, or too prideful to admit he can’t do it by himself anymore. At this point he may as well see that it’s done one way or the other and get paid before he dies. Instead he’s going to die from beetus and his estate will cobble together several books shortly thereafter based on his notes. The former at least he could direct the story the way he wants but it requires work and sucking up some of his pride.

However, my guess is he just doesn’t feel like working but can’t admit it. He could be tired of the series or perhaps now that he has made bank he just doesn’t feel motivated anymore. He’s probably slightly on the spectrum and just feels like daddling. I also suspect that since he’s become famous, his editors can’t really tard wrangle him anymore into working. Whatever the reason he’s pulling a spoony but instead of being a YouTuber it’s a series that once rivaled LOTR, Star Wars, and other IPs for prominence in pop culture.

I don't think he's necessarily lost motivation (that is what happened for the 3 years after ADWD's release, where he was enjoying his newfound celebrity), but he's fallen back into the same trap that delayed AFFC and ADWD so much, where he admitted he wrote himself into a corner that he dubbed "the Mereenese knot". He couldn't get the timelines and character arcs to intersect properly after choosing to abandon his initially planed 5-year skip post-ASOS, and admitted he re-wrote Tyrion's arc in particular dozens of times trying to figure out how to get him to meet up with Danaerys, and Tyrion wasn't the only character this happened to. I suspect the reason AFFC contains so much dicking around in Dorne/the Iron Islands was because he didn't have to worry about that shit.

Last month he dropped that he's rewriting some of the leaked TWOW chapters (probably Mercy, everyone thought that was gross), so he's most likely back to the same bad habits and cannot force himself to commit to one decision and see it through. He's even talking about needing an 8th book now, meaning he's probably writing more meandering sidequest material that's easy to write and strokes his worldbuilding boner.

He was a talented author who blew his creative load on the 3rd book and fell into self-indulgence and poor discipline. The American Tolkien my ass.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

Yeah they kinda killed the golden goose.

In a time and age when everything attempts to be an "expanded cinematic universe", even fucking Ghostbusters, Dumb and Dumber managed to make a show that was on the best trajectory to becoming the foundation for countless shows, movies, spin-off after spin-off, sequels, prequels, what have you . . . and they pissed it away in like 4 episodes. The rot had been there for a long time by that point, issues ran deep and wide, but with a decent ending, they might have skipped past these issues and from then on out, you could have made shows and movies about literally anything in that setting and it would have had a decent chance to print money...

How anyone is still willing to even just humor the thought of giving these clowns a single chance at running a show is beyond me. I wish I could see sales in GoT Merchandise over the years, I bet it imploded during season 8 and never recovered.
I think there hasn't been anything in recent years that came this close to becoming an "expanded universe" with a lot of potential for endless spin-offs and D&D ruined it to a point, where I doubt it will ever recover.

 

[Scarlett Johansson]

Melisandre would never burn Shireen. Its ridiculous. Patchface should have appeared as well.

Unpopular opinion but Book 4 is my favorite. Cersei has the best POV chapters in the entire series.

 

[Absolutego]

Melisandre would never burn Shireen. Its ridiculous. Patchface should have appeared as well.

Unpopular opinion but Book 4 is my favorite. Cersei has the best POV chapters in the entire series.

Watching Cersei bumble the kingdom to ruin while thinking she was a master manipulator saved that book for me.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

Watching Cersei bumble the kingdom to ruin while thinking she was a master manipulator saved that book for me.

There's also a few bits of subtle humor, when some maid tries to squeeze Cersei into her dress, which doesn't fit and Cersei thinks it's due to the maid being weak and clumsy instead of realizing that she's gaining weight. But yeah, watching Cersei trying to take part in the various games at court and fucking up more and more and it backfiring is a joy to read.

 

[SmugAutist]

Wasn't there a spinoff being produced that was so woke even HBO of all companies decided to pass on it for woke overload?

Anyways, the only interesting one of the bunch would be the Targaryen one, beceause the one about White Walkers would suck. There's no way you can make the Others look like unstoppable and terryfing forces of nature after how they got bitched in that last season.

 

[Emperor Julian]

There's also a few bits of subtle humor, when some maid tries to squeeze Cersei into her dress, which doesn't fit and Cersei thinks it's due to the maid being weak and clumsy instead of realizing that she's gaining weight. But yeah, watching Cersei trying to take part in the various games at court and fucking up more and more and it backfiring is a joy to read.

it also served as a subtle commentry about the importance of adminstrating and diplomancy, Cersai implodes because she isnt actually a very good ruler and is only really competant at political skullduggery. It's a nice counterpoint to earlier books where it was spelled out being honerable or a good military commander don't make a good king either.
The show naturally ignored all the bits about actually running a country being it's less imediatly dramatic which is partly why late series Tyrion sucks since he's really good at it in the books.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

it also served as a subtle commentry about the importance of adminstrating and diplomancy, Cersai implodes because she isnt actually a very good ruler and is only really competant at political skullduggery. It's a nice counterpoint to earlier books where it was spelled out being honerable or a good military commander don't make a good king either.
The show naturally ignored all the bits about actually running a country being it's less imediatly dramatic which is partly why late series Tyrion sucks since he's really good at it in the books.

I don't think she was even good at that. Cersai only survived by being protected by more competent men, plus the sheer idiocy of Ned Stark. On her own she is way too impatient and spiteful to actually manipulate and make complex plots.
It's similar for Dany, who only survived this far due to zealous allies and her dragons. She was a terrible ruler that routinely made the worse choices and got protected by plot armor.

 

[BeboRefugee]

Wasn't there a spinoff being produced that was so woke even HBO of all companies decided to pass on it for woke overload?

Anyways, the only interesting one of the bunch would be the Targaryen one, beceause the one about White Walkers would suck. There's no way you can make the Others look like unstoppable and terryfing forces of nature after how they got bitched in that last season.

None of this really matters now. The IP's financial viability is dead thanks to that ending and as you say, the WW got BTFO'd so hard that they weren't even the main villains in Season 8, they got swept aside in 2 episodes. You can't really build stakes around their original rise when they've been overshadowed by the famously incompetent Cersei Lannister.

One thing I remember quite vividly was there being a lot of rumblings about how 'painfully white' most of the ensemble cast was throughout the show. It really seemed to get louder around Season 5, because that's when even the most disinterested of pundits were forced to pay attention to GoT's cultural impact. This at least partly explains the energy around the Long Night prequel where half the main cast were black. Not Slaver's Bay black (the actors who were really Arabs or had an English grandparent somewhere) I mean Salladhor San Summer Islander black. There's nothing wrong with such a thing on its own legs, btw. If the story is cohesive and tells a story for why these different groups fight the Others and then go their separate ways, that's fine-- but you know the undercurrents in the casting was less so about expanding the lore, and more the sense that ethnic activists felt their '''side''' lost out. A fantasy realm that ripped off medieval England was devoid of black actors, and was also, for years, HBO's flagship television series. Throwing their weight behind the most diverse spin-off was their way of getting out in front of the trend.

At the end of the day though, there's no winning with the Woke Brigade. If I remember correctly the Children of the Forest were all played by Asian women, which is unnecessary in isolation, but a good way of including an untapped pool of actors for the show, while remaining loyal to the setting. Unfortunately, there exists a class of people who stay relevant through constantly finding grievances to harp on about. If they aren't aggrieved as a minority or on behalf of others, nobody cares about their hollow opinions.
They got mad the CoTF were all played by Asians and were heavily prosthesised for the role, as though a bunch of visibly Vietnamese women hiding in caves with explosives would be a more dignified portrayal or something. They don't actually know what they want, they just know they can profit by nitpicking anybody who actually tries.
Had D&D not raped this show in a ditch, I'm almost certain this would be where the battle lines would be drawn. On one side, people wanting the newest spin-off to just be good, and wanting spin-offs to primarily cast cute English kids who grow up to be ugly. On the other, SJWs who want the lore twisted and bent to accommodate more representation, on the grounds that this isn't just any show, it's the biggest series on television, so little black boys and girls need this. The fact that we're not even having this debate play out, especially in the divided, hyper-political landscape we live in right now, is like a monument to how hard D&D fucked this up. Nobody gives enough of a shit anymore to want more Game of Thrones, let alone a flavour of it more palatable to their ideology.

It's just fascinating how even 2 years ago, GoT was developing a fundamentally flawed premise, but the hype was still there. Everybody knew about this show. People's GPAs and careers were being negatively impacted because of how much focus got diverted to Westeros when the show was airing. Now? Absolutely nothing. The entire world has been shut indoors for several weeks, months, your time may vary. Dozens of friends on my feed this year would announce themselves binge-watching a new series, or Lord of the Rings, or some beloved series they couldn't simply get through in a normal weekend... but Game of Thrones was conspicuously absent. Not a single mention. Has this level of drop-off ever happened before?

 

[SmugAutist]

Has this level of drop-off ever happened before?

I think it has, but it's different when it happened to Game of Thrones.

In the old days of TV, the Star Treks and the like, shows were made explicitly so that every episode and later on every season was self-contained, while also advancing for the more dedicated viewers. This was the case with children's cartoons when I was growing up. You could watch any Spider-Man episode regardless if you watched it last week and still enjoy it. Thus, even if a show went down the crapper, you could still enjoy several seasons of it. Best example is the Simpsons who, most people will say you should stop watching after season 10, but you should still watch seasons 2 - 7 despite how bad it currently is.

How do you do that with GoT, though? Can you just say "Well, you can stop after season 4 since it goes south after that"?" No, because after the Sopranos hit it big, sequential storytelling for TV shows has become the norm, even for old IPs like Star Trek. If the conclusion is going to be crap, why even care about the earlier seasons? THe only reason to do it is to later on pick up the book series that GRRM frankly doesn't give a shit about anymore.

 

[Late and Gay]

Dumb and Dumber just had to do Jon dirty like that huh.