Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

[Re(Runner)48]

Kind of out of the blue, since I was thinking of writing up a full rewrite here but scraped it, I still think Carmilla is one of the most shit characters of Hazbin, for the simple fact she's on paper a ruthless arms dealer but in practice the one thing the show makes it seem like she did bad was trying to cover up the fact angels are vulnerable to their own weaponry. It blindingly obvious who Viv wants you like or dislike.

Having an arms dealer is such a shitty idea for hazbin. It's such a cop out because much like what I and many begin to believe is that the angels are straight up braindead. Why would you leave your weapons there? And are they coming down with a shed FULL of weapons? They left so many infact that all of the corpses are littered with spears and enough to make GUNS/BULLETS/DANCER SHOES/ BOMBS/PLAYINGCARDS/SWORDS AND SHEILDS if not more. That's whats crazy is that they leave their stuff there and so much that it's BASICALLY a COMMON resource. That is something you should never have in your story and sucks the tension/build up of this MacGuffin.

This is why making these weaknesses are important, or you get the most retarded writing. One example being Green Lanturns they represent creativity/willpower/spirit a ring that bestows to the wearer nearly unlimited potential for the user. So what's something that can effect this power fear/cowardice (yellow lanturns). Great idea!

But no ACTUAL COLOR YELLOW. What? A yellow room could make them useless, a glass of lemonade/lemons could destroy them, hell a yellow creature could destroy all of them easily.

 

[Smity Werbenjagermanjensen]

Having an arms dealer is such a shitty idea for hazbin. It's such a cop out because much like what I and many begin to believe is that the angels are straight up braindead. Why would you leave your weapons there? And are they coming down with a shed FULL of weapons? They left so many infact that all of the corpses are littered with spears and enough to make GUNS/BULLETS/DANCER SHOES/ BOMBS/PLAYINGCARDS/SWORDS AND SHEILDS if not more. That's whats crazy is that they leave their stuff there and so much that it's BASICALLY a COMMON resource. That is something you should never have in your story and sucks the tension/build up of this MacGuffin.

This is why making these weaknesses are important, or you get the most retarded writing. One example being Green Lanturns they represent creativity/willpower/spirit a ring that bestows to the wearer nearly unlimited potential for the user. So what's something that can effect this power fear/cowardice (yellow lanturns). Great idea!

But no ACTUAL COLOR YELLOW. What? A yellow room could make them useless, a glass of lemonade/lemons could destroy them, hell a yellow creature could destroy all of them easily.

Issue is Viv isn't intelligent at all, so she can only write stupid characters, and stupid villians always, without fail, suck.

 

[Re(Runner)48]

Issue is Viv isn't intelligent at all, so she can only write stupid characters, and stupid villians always, without fail, suck.

Untrue, as everyone loves Adam way more than Charlie or a portion of the Hazbin team. She isn't intelligent enough to make the main characters likable because of how lobotomized they are and makes the villians (though retarded in their own right) make them smarter than a portion of the demons.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

Kind of out of the blue, since I was thinking of writing up a full rewrite here but scraped it, I still think Carmilla is one of the most shit characters of Hazbin, for the simple fact she's on paper a ruthless arms dealer but in practice the one thing the show makes it seem like she did bad was trying to cover up the fact angels are vulnerable to their own weaponry. It blindingly obvious who Viv wants you like or dislike.

I mean this is a consistent writing flaw Vivzie has because for all she talks about how she loves Bojack Horseman and all these more nuanced shows, she can't write any actual nuance.

Helluva Boss has this problem even worse with the protagonist-centered morality where literal embodiments of sin teach virtues to the main characters to show how they're good people but don't give a damn if anyone else is addicted.

Even her attempts at writing nuance are really dumb like with Octavia and Sera from HB and HH.

Octavia is this teen who for all intents and purposes should hate her father, but Vivzie makes sure its a misunderstanding that will immediately be resolved.

Vivzie likely wanted to tone down the Heaven Bad stuff she originally had and Sera exists to say the execution day stuff is there because of....A SECRET UPRISING that makes no sense between again the points I repeat a lot with magic crystal ball and Lucifer communication, but also if there is a hell uprising that is behind the exterminations, wouldn't it make more sense for the angels to target Overlords, Hellborn, the Deadly Sins, and Goetia rather than lowly sinners

EDIT: Also kinda disagree on the whole Adam is more liked than Charlie idea because he is definitely more liked ITT, but on the wider internet, Charlie is just seen as bland, while people hate Adam for being an "annoying Heaven Bad" villain who lacks nuance

 

[Re(Runner)48]

: Also kinda disagree on the whole Adam is more liked than Charlie idea because he is definitely more liked ITT, but on the wider internet, Charlie is just seen as bland, while people hate Adam for being an "annoying Heaven Bad" villain who lacks nuance

I don't believe so. From what I've seen yes people might think he's annoying or is a standard Vivziepop horny male. But he's a villian who's actually RIGHT. And the people who don't like him because he's a "misogynist/genocider/pervert" is nothing different from any of the other cast who tells us were suppose to love. But Adam's beliefs are correct they are all demons and monsters that SHOULD be killed, they are unredeemable and are disgusting creatures that don't even deserve to be alive again in the afterlife same goes for Lute. Compared to all of the main characters who actively hurt others to get their jollys off without reason. Sure Adam might say some weird shit and be weird to women but compared to someone like AngelDust who does the same thing and WORSE as hes actively touching/groping/physical assaulting male characters/ Husk. Why isn't he called a filthy pig and put in his place for that only ADAM is.

 

[Outer Space Traveller]

Having an arms dealer is such a shitty idea for hazbin. It's such a cop out because much like what I and many begin to believe is that the angels are straight up braindead. Why would you leave your weapons there? And are they coming down with a shed FULL of weapons? They left so many infact that all of the corpses are littered with spears and enough to make GUNS/BULLETS/DANCER SHOES/ BOMBS/PLAYINGCARDS/SWORDS AND SHEILDS if not more. That's whats crazy is that they leave their stuff there and so much that it's BASICALLY a COMMON resource. That is something you should never have in your story and sucks the tension/build up of this MacGuffin.

This is why making these weaknesses are important, or you get the most retarded writing. One example being Green Lanturns they represent creativity/willpower/spirit a ring that bestows to the wearer nearly unlimited potential for the user. So what's something that can effect this power fear/cowardice (yellow lanturns). Great idea!

But no ACTUAL COLOR YELLOW. What? A yellow room could make them useless, a glass of lemonade/lemons could destroy them, hell a yellow creature could destroy all of them easily.

I'm intrigued by this, but didn't understand exactly what you meant.

As in, from what I see: exterminators are dumb enough to leave weapons so devils can extract it and make their own? What to make of the mafiosos, Crimson et al? In a force of goodness, I would exterminate worms like these in a heartbeat, not leave them to do musclework to help people like Carmilla.
And the rings of the lanters are to make it - basically - a finite resource?

I don't believe so. From what I've seen yes people might think he's annoying or is a standard Vivziepop horny male. But he's a villian who's actually RIGHT. And the people who don't like him because he's a "misogynist/genocider/pervert" is nothing different from any of the other cast who tells us were suppose to love. But Adam's beliefs are correct they are all demons and monsters that SHOULD be killed, they are unredeemable and are disgusting creatures that don't even deserve to be alive again in the afterlife same goes for Lute. Compared to all of the main characters who actively hurt others to get their jollys off without reason. Sure Adam might say some weird shit and be weird to women but compared to someone like AngelDust who does the same thing and WORSE as hes actively touching/groping/physical assaulting male characters/ Husk. Why isn't he called a filthy pig and put in his place for that only ADAM is.

What actively sucks is that they make Adam a flanderization. I don't imagine anyone can act like this and be taken seriously. Even imagining "Fine, it's a cartoon/fiction", he has too much power and can fuck up if he's just a "dudebro you HAVE TO HATE". By not giving him depth, he has grounds to destroy the story or parts of it.

And I'll reconnect my point again from mafiosos before: I'd love to see Adam fucking smash them (not because I want, but it would boost a reason on WHY EXTERMINATIONS EXIST IN THE FIRST PLACE). You get people actively doing work on robbery of classified weaponry and smuggling, and they must be exterminated at once.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

I don't believe so. From what I've seen yes people might think he's annoying or is a standard Vivziepop horny male. But he's a villian who's actually RIGHT. And the people who don't like him because he's a "misogynist/genocider/pervert" is nothing different from any of the other cast who tells us were suppose to love. But Adam's beliefs are correct they are all demons and monsters that SHOULD be killed, they are unredeemable and are disgusting creatures that don't even deserve to be alive again in the afterlife same goes for Lute. Compared to all of the main characters who actively hurt others to get their jollys off without reason. Sure Adam might say some weird shit and be weird to women but compared to someone like AngelDust who does the same thing and WORSE as hes actively touching/groping/physical assaulting male characters/ Husk. Why isn't he called a filthy pig and put in his place for that only ADAM is.

Again not really especially cause Adam is lumped in with shit Vivziepop villains. Yeah there is probably a subsection who thinks he's right, but it's not the vast majority.

Its also undermined with how he has no real moral reason because the show just shows him just treating the whole demon killing thing as just like trophy hunting.

Adam would be somewhat justified if the series stuck to the overpopulation crisis or hell if its because Lucifer is not punishing sinners which could even give him a point, but the whole "WE GOTTA STOP A DEMON UPRISING" plot really undermines anything he does, and given the fact the Lilith in Heaven is Eve could probably make it worse.

Angel isn't called a filthy pig because in the defense, the bar is very low to be an upstanding person in Hell but Adam is the first man who is supposed to be a major echelon of Heaven yet he's a gluttonous, slovenly, horny manchild who just enjoys slaughtering souls for fun.

Not to mention within the show, no one has any idea what gets anyone to Heaven or Hell kinda blurs the line on who deserves it without just imposing how Hell works from other sources, which don't really apply to Hazbin's retarded worldbuilding.

Now let me go on a tangent because, its funny how Vivzie retconned the motive for exterminations from the more understandable "overpopulation crisis" to cull sinners to "Stopping Lucifer from having a Demon Uprising" when like it gets stupid when you learn that Hellborn are exempt from being killed yet ironically HELLBORN ARE MORE LIKELY TO START DEMONIC UPRISINGS THANKS TO DEMONS LIKE THESE TWO



Reminder that Asmodeus literally has crystals given to Hellborn demons which the ones we've seen with them have coerced teenagers into drug trading, seduce (and presumably raped) a bunch of regular ass humans, and run a business where pissed off dead people can hire hitmen to murder targets for very petty reasons like disagreeing on online shipping discourse with a lot of casualties being killed during these hits that weren't originally the target.

Stolas given the pilot and the show has a grimoire which allows him to go the human world where he has been shown multiple times to meddle in human affairs.

tl;dr Adam while he is a fun villain, really has no moral highground from there being no clue on how people go to Heaven/Hell, him being more sinful than some of the sinners, and especially with the retconning for why the exterminations happen from overpopulation (pilot) to uprising prevention (tv show) when the actual ones capable of causing an uprising are exempt from being killed.

 

[Smity Werbenjagermanjensen]

But Adam's beliefs are correct they are all demons and monsters that SHOULD be killed, they are unredeemable and are disgusting creatures that don't even deserve to be alive again in the afterlife same goes for Lute. Compared to all of the main characters who actively hurt others to get their jollys off without reason. Sure Adam might say some weird shit and be weird to women but compared to someone like AngelDust who does the same thing and WORSE as hes actively touching/groping/physical assaulting male characters/ Husk. Why isn't he called a filthy pig and put in his place for that only ADAM is.

I could see the argument against the exterminations if there were more characters like Pentious, as much as I'm not a fan with his leaked backstory I'm for the most part fine with it being one sin that landed him in Hell, and how it can easily be argued someone like him doesn't deserve eternal damnation, much less being exterminated. The issue is that every other major Sinner character is a confirmed serial killer who actively sought out and made a deal with a demon for power, a mobster who at the very least helped dispose of a body or two, a former Overlord who gambled people's souls away but has no real info on his Human life, and an absolute psychopath who 100% killed someone in life.

So yeah, I'll spare my pity, especially since most of them don't really show much regrets.

 

[Rakdos92]

Vivzie said he's "half-Creole" which in itself is meaningless, and she only went down this path when Twitter dumbfucks said Alastor couldn't be white because he offered to make Jambalaya, apparently unaware that it was the fucking white-ass cracker Cajuns that developed the dish in the first place.

Hate that bullshit, with niggers and minorities going "Oh, silly whitey don' suh-sun dey food! Dum-dum crackas needed us to bring taste into their life!" Near all good food was invented by an enterprising white cook in either Europe or the USA. Any moron can deep-fry meat and drown it in spices.

 

[Dr. Ricearoni]

Hate that bullshit, with niggers and minorities going "Oh, silly whitey don' suh-sun dey food! Dum-dum crackas needed us to bring taste into their life!" Near all good food was invented by an enterprising white cook in either Europe or the USA. Any moron can deep-fry meat and drown it in spices.

Yeah drives me mad how niggers claim cajun food when it was invented by the swamp frenchies.

 

[brownsuagrbubbletea]

Kind of out of the blue, since I was thinking of writing up a full rewrite here but scraped it, I still think Carmilla is one of the most shit characters of Hazbin, for the simple fact she's on paper a ruthless arms dealer but in practice the one thing the show makes it seem like she did bad was trying to cover up the fact angels are vulnerable to their own weaponry. It blindingly obvious who Viv wants you like or dislike.

Quite funny how we as an audience are supposed to be conflicted about that fact.
Like honey, you’re a demon in hell I’m pretty sure the only reason people would be upset with you is that your having fun without them.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

Angelic weapons shouldn't be easy access to the people in Hell. With how willy-nilly angels leave their weapons, we should see more Sinners running around with those weapons killing each other. Because I'm sure there are plenty of them that would want whoever they are killing to stay dead instead of just reviving later on.

And Carmilla is another stupid character that doesn't make sense. She's an arms dealer that doesn't want blood on her heads...but is actively selling weapons that not only hurts others, but permanently kills them. In her conception and pilot days she was a cold calculating business woman, but for whatever reason Viv decided to make those two Sinners in the pilot that are collecting angelic weapons Carmilla's daughters to make her more soft. Why? Maybe Viv was tired of hearing people complain that there weren't enough mother characters in her shows.

 

[brownsuagrbubbletea]

Angelic weapons shouldn't be easy access to the people in Hell. With how willy-nilly angels leave their weapons, we should see more Sinners running around with those weapons killing each other. Because I'm sure there are plenty of them that would want whoever they are killing to stay dead instead of just reviving later on.

And Carmilla is another stupid character that doesn't make sense. She's an arms dealer that doesn't want blood on her heads...but is actively selling weapons that not only hurts others, but permanently kills them. In her conception and pilot days she was a cold calculating business woman, but for whatever reason Viv decided to make those two Sinners in the pilot that are collecting angelic weapons Carmilla's daughters to make her more soft. Why? Maybe Viv was tired of hearing people complain that there weren't enough mother characters in her shows.

IMO, Carmilla's character sounds neat on paper they probably could've made her one of the characters who was wrongfully in hell if they written her that she killed someone to protect her daughters while she was alive.

 

[LucasSomething]

Angelic weapon is such a retarded plot point that trying to put in any semi-serious monster attack setting really highlights the sheer absurdity.

Imagine if in Demon Slayer the demons attacked villages with magical katanas and then they dropped their weapons for no reason before leaving. Then one single person grabs ALL those magical katanas and sells them on black market so people can buy it to kill more people... Then it turns out the magical katana can kill demons but no one has ever tried swinging back at them for thousands of years! WHOA!

 

[Doctor of Autism]

Angelic weapon is such a retarded plot point that trying to put in any semi-serious monster attack setting really highlights the sheer absurdity.

Imagine if in Demon Slayer the demons attacked villages with magical katanas and then they dropped their weapons for no reason before leaving. Then one single person grabs ALL those magical katanas and sells them on black market so people can buy it to kill more people... Then it turns out the magical katana can kill demons but no one has ever tried swinging back at them for thousands of years! WHOA!

It really ties into how The Extermination themselves are written in a confusingly and contradictory way since we don't know when they were even started at all because with how Adam is the guy who pitched the idea and Eve is somehow in Heaven pretending to be Lilith while the show leaves a hook that Lilith and Alastor both disappeared for 7 years.

It feels like the range for when the exterminations started could be from 10,000 years to 7 years, which again the demon uprising plot would make the larger numbers look almost ridiculous

 

[Smity Werbenjagermanjensen]

It feels like the range for when the exterminations started could be from 10,000 years to 7 years

Really, the exterminations  should have only been going on for a handful of years maximum, because then it would be much easier to buy some of the stupid shit like the exterminations somehow being kept secret to nearly all of Heaven, and how nobody has figured out that exorcists are vulnerable to their own weaponry.

 

[Gondolindrim]

I already shudder to think what side characters they're going to introduce in the new seasons.

Well the good news is they can't be any more annoying than the mainstays we already have. Blitzo raises your tolerance level for awful characters up by several magnitudes.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

It really ties into how The Extermination themselves are written in a confusingly and contradictory way since we don't know when they were even started at all because with how Adam is the guy who pitched the idea and Eve is somehow in Heaven pretending to be Lilith while the show leaves a hook that Lilith and Alastor both disappeared for 7 years.

It feels like the range for when the exterminations started could be from 10,000 years to 7 years, which again the demon uprising plot would make the larger numbers look almost ridiculous

Really, the exterminations  should have only been going on for a handful of years maximum, because then it would be much easier to buy some of the stupid shit like the exterminations somehow being kept secret to nearly all of Heaven, and how nobody has figured out that exorcists are vulnerable to their own weaponry.

Why do I have a feeling that the exterminations happened right when Charlie was born? I definitely feel like that could be a big revelation that happens in season 3.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

Really, the exterminations  should have only been going on for a handful of years maximum, because then it would be much easier to buy some of the stupid shit like the exterminations somehow being kept secret to nearly all of Heaven, and how nobody has figured out that exorcists are vulnerable to their own weaponry.

Why do I have a feeling that the exterminations happened right when Charlie was born? I definitely feel like that could be a big revelation that happens in season 3.

Yeah it's pretty likely the exterminations happened for at most for 20-something years (since Charlie is in her 20s according to the wiki) yet the series didn't go through much script changes since they act like it's been around for thousands of years or that it's done for population control.

Vivzie really should have something to check over her scripts for these continuity inconsistencies.

Well the good news is they can't be any more annoying than the mainstays we already have. Blitzo raises your tolerance level for awful characters up by several magnitudes.

Damn then that must mean Stolas can overcome any tolerance barrier of annoyance since everytime Vivzie does something, it's somehow more annoying than the last most annoying thing she did with him.

 

[Smity Werbenjagermanjensen]

Yeah it's pretty likely the exterminations happened for at most for 20-something years (since Charlie is in her 20s according to the wiki)

I thought she was supposed to be something like two-hundred.