HVAC/R and Air Conditioning - Why survive SHTF if it gets hot

[Pretend To Imagine]

McDonald’s has made more money selling burgers for a dollar than the entire HVAC industry combined. If you can’t adapt to the market then it’s only a matter of time that the consumers catch the drift. $10k in labor for two hours of work amounts to $5,000/hr. Literal electrical engineers don’t make that kind of money. And let’s be honest, how many of these installs are actually tailored to the house with a Manual J load calc, etc.

I don’t know where you get those numbers from, but I’m typically at a 20% profit margin.

 

[Dawdler]

The customer is a noteworthy chain of convenience stores and they have the best conditions for kitchen equipment in stores, the kitchen itself is cleaned 3 times daily and the entire store will be 68°F.

That is really rare. Kitchens are usually horrible.

 

[George Lucas]

I don’t know where you get those numbers from, but I’m typically at a 20% profit margin.

All right let’s assume $10k invoice, subtract $3,000 for materials. $7,000 labor and you finish the job in two hours. That’s $3500/hr. Less than $5,000 I said originally but you get the idea. There are guys charging double or triple what you’re doing. Different markets and all that I assume. But how do you get to a 20% margin from there?

 

[Pretend To Imagine]

All right let’s assume $10k invoice, subtract $3,000 for materials. $7,000 labor and you finish the job in two hours. That’s $3500/hr. Less than $5,000 I said originally but you get the idea. There are guys charging double or triple what you’re doing. Different markets and all that I assume. But how do you get to a 20% margin from there?

Where are you getting two hours labor from? It takes more than that to pick up the equipment and drive to the job site.

 

[SuperConglomerateWhale]

That is really rare. Kitchens are usually horrible.

This customer has a large amount of “fuck you” money and they will go out of their way to make sure everything inside of the building is within the spec of the kitchen equipment being used, and this is across almost 2k locations in multiple states.

RTU’s are Lennox with either the prodigy controls or CORE. Ice machines are Follett, prep tables are Kairak blu units and a stray Randell, undercounter refrigerators are Silverking. They used to put in Hussmann Proto-Aire units for the boxes and open cases but they stopped recently to move towards Trenton condensers because the Proto will hold like 200-250lbs of refrigerant and we have issues with the common discharge manifold cracking at the compressor 2 discharge and dumping the entire charge.

 

[George Lucas]

Where are you getting two hours labor from? It takes more than that to pick up the equipment and drive to the job site.

Okay nigger now you’re just being obtuse. Mini-split installs in America are a ripoff and anyone remotely handy can do it themselves. Don’t complain to me when consumers get wise to it. Like I said there are guys charging triple for a literal single unit install. The market isn’t going to bear that price forever. That's the whole reason I asked.

 

[Pretend To Imagine]

Okay nigger now you’re just being obtuse. Mini-split installs in America are a ripoff and anyone remotely handy can do it themselves. Don’t complain to me when consumers get wise to it. Like I said there are guys charging triple for a literal single unit install. The market isn’t going to bear that price forever. That's the whole reason I asked.

I don’t complain. Apparently I’m out here making $5,000 per hour.

Real business math looks something like this:
Equipment cost $4,000
Labor cost $1,250 (10 hours labor)
Misc materials $250
Total before margin $5,500
Total with 20% profit margin $6,875
So the business stands to make $1,375 if everything goes well.

 

[Dawdler]

Mini-split installs in America are a ripoff and anyone remotely handy can do it themselves.

They are. You can get all the tools you need for about 300USD.
You are paying for convenience of someone doing it for you in the mad heat of the day in middle of summer.

common discharge manifold cracking at the compressor 2 discharge and dumping the entire charge.

Absolutely lovely

 

[Cat Hyde Boots]

I don’t complain. Apparently I’m out here making $5,000 per hour.

Real business math looks something like this:
Equipment cost $4,000
Labor cost $1,250 (10 hours labor)
Misc materials $250
Total before margin $5,500
Total with 20% profit margin $6,875
So the business stands to make $1,375 if everything goes well.

Homeowners seemingly think 2 guys can magically teleport to a supply house, then teleport to the jobsite, then spend only an hour to actually install the thing and make sure it works and no goofs happened, then finally teleport back home.

 

[SuperConglomerateWhale]

Homeowners seemingly think 2 guys can magically teleport to a supply house, then teleport to the jobsite, then spend only an hour to actually install the thing and make sure it works and no goofs happened, then finally teleport back home.

Homeowners also aren’t business owners they cannot comprehend how a business needs 90 days of operating capital just to stay open before any profit is generated.

 

[Pretend To Imagine]

They are. You can get all the tools you need for about 300USD.

Besides the obvious hand tools you will also need a gauge manifold, nitrogen and regulator, vacuum pump and micron gauge if you are going to do it right. Also a good feel for how much to tighten the flare fittings,or a torque wrench any hope that the flares on the factory line set are good, because they usually are not, and we end up cutting them off and replacing them. If the lines are over a certain length you will need additional refrigerant and an accurate scale.

You will also want to understand how to wire it safely and most likely will be working in a live electrical panel to install a breaker.

 

[ObeseScreamingBlackMan]

In my resi days, our retard installers not checking flares before just sending them on Mitsubishi installs was the bane of my existence. Some were so shitty I can't believe the nut held.

15+ years later, the Chinesium ones I just installed all had perfectly good, centered, ungouged flares. I couldn't believe it.

 

[Dawdler]

Besides the obvious hand tools you will also need a gauge manifold, nitrogen and regulator, vacuum pump and micron gauge if you are going to do it right. Also a good feel for how much to tighten the flare fittings,or a torque wrench any hope that the flares on the factory line set are good, because they usually are not, and we end up cutting them off and replacing them. If the lines are over a certain length you will need additional refrigerant and an accurate scale.

You will also want to understand how to wire it safely and most likely will be working in a live electrical panel to install a breaker.

Depends on install but for split you don't really need much more than flare tool and a vacuum pump.
If you stay within line limits you don't need to provide additional charge. Some splits are also made with oxygen scrubbers in driers so you can install them even without vacuuming, just purging lines. That is horrible way to do it tho.
Electrical connections for low power splits can be made with a plug instead of permanent wiring.

Some were so shitty I can't believe the nut held.

Beauty in flares is that with proper flare fittings even a horrible one will seal as they deform to the surface.

 

[Narcan Nimrod]

Heat pumps are based as fuck. And air conditioning, though power hungry, is a necessity to survive in the goon caves of the second millennia. ITT we hope to share final solutions for cooling as cost effective as possible. so we can afford tendies and the power bill to simulate AI waifus in 100F summer heat.

To quote the great Null "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure." And here we start with blackout curtains. Like the border wall/immigration? The easiest way to keep cool is to not let the heat in in the first place. Here's where I'd bring up the concept of diminishing returns. As the more you spend the less light you block per dollar spend.

Second is swamp cooling, where you have a tub of water and it does the cooling for free, as the water evaporates it cools, this is the same way that water is cool in a hot day on the beach. Just make sure to exhaust the water vapor, otherwise you've accomplished nothing but venting the heat from your home: into your home. you dildo.

Third slot is getting the most based technology. The best of proper air conditioners (which swamp coolers technically are. but this is my post. fuck you.) The split mini is a mini air conditioner with (a) dedicated interior vent(s) and an exterior compressor that can deport heat from your house. These are incredibly efficient and cost effective. Although running draw is similar to the next units on the list.

Four: Portable AC. These bad boys blow cold air and kind of suck at it. like the aircon in your buddies '97 cavalier. it's trying; really hard. But due to the hot end of the heat exchanger being right next to the cold side? it leaks. And heat radiates from the exhaust ducting. So what you get, unless you insulate the exhaust (Brainwave as I'm typing this, this is why we're here,) is the AC unit separating the hot and cold, and doing a really shitty job at dispatching the heat. Which means it has to pump the leaked energy again to cool that off. You get where I'm going here. it's like Sisyphus, forever trying to achieve room temperature, and failing like a retarded dog doing a math problem.

number five is the G-Wagon. number five is the "I give up take all of my money." it's a twenty thousand dollar central AC unit. This is the nuclear option. It's way overkill. But when you're heatstroked for 150 to 365 days a year. Sometimes those credit card numbers call the siren song, like the launch codes in a politicians ear. You will never have a hot home again. So long as you can pay utilities you will be a fridged oasis in the desert of a Californian wildfire. Heat ceases to lose all meaning. It is but an expense on the bill every month. A long lost echo of the braincells killed by leaded gasoline. and you are happy.

If someone knows insulation, and what that does for staying cool? I'll quote you in the footer here.

 

[DavidS877]

Portable

Only buy the dual hose models so they don't suck hot air into the room to the exahust.

 

[From The Uncanny Valley]

having an air conditioner in your room is the tits

 

[Lovely Kin]

Third slot is getting the most based technology. The best of proper air conditioners (which swamp coolers technically are. but this is my post. fuck you.) The split mini is a mini air conditioner with (a) dedicated interior vent(s) and an exterior compressor that can deport heat from your house. These are incredibly efficient and cost effective. Although running draw is similar to the next units on the list.

Splits are often used in very old homes around here as it would be very difficult to build central air conditioning. They are pretty decent.

 

[MrTroll]

To quote the great Null "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure."

How much prevention is worth about 250 pounds of The Cure?

 

[Narcan Nimrod]

having an air conditioner in your room is the tits

Holy fuck, I forgot wall/window mounted. they're basically portables with the hot end outside though. So it's a similar, albeit marginally less bad, outcome.

 

[888Flux]

We have an HVAC/R thread that is on page 1 bro

Thread 'HVAC/R and Air Conditioning'

Jul 5, 2024

I figured I could share my knowledge of over 23 years in the trade to help people work on their own equipment. You will need to have the tools to take accurate and safe electrical readings, temperatures of both the air streams of your equipment, and line temperatures.

In my area there isn’t as much need for heat as the rest of the country, so I don’t have as much experience with gas heat, but I am familiar with it.

There is a lot of basic maintenance that will save you lots of trouble. Change your air filters regularly, and make sure no air is bypassing them. Keep your outdoor unit...

• Pretend To Imagine
• Replies: 169
• Forum: Self-Sufficiency

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