James Cameron's Avatar to get four sequels - The message will still be the same

Doctor of Autism said:
Why should I give a shit about a hypothetical Avatar 3 when the Humans aren't even that much of a threat. But I bet it's the same movie where White Savior and his family end up going to another tribe and are somehow better tribespeople than the natives who've trained for most of their lives.
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Man you're really bent out of shape over Jake Sully being white, this is the second time you've seethed over it. You do realize it's realistic, right? Whites uplifted the world out of the iron age, obviously we would be better at being mudhut savages too. This is probably one of the few aspects of the film that isn't eye rolling inducing from how ridiculous it is.
 
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Fount of BadSpeak said:
Man you're really bent out of shape over Jake Sully being white, this is the second time you've seethed over it. You do realize it's realistic, right? Whites uplifted the world out of the iron age, obviously we would be better at being mudhut savages too. This is probably one of the few aspects of the film that isn't eye rolling inducing from how ridiculous it is.
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You know that the White Savior is a common trope name right? Also even then the faggot is a white guilt character who hates what humanity does and would let the human race die for Alien pussy.
 
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Doctor of Autism said:
You know that the White Savior is a common trope name right? Also even then the faggot is a white guilt character who hates what humanity does and would let the human race die for Alien pussy.
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It's really not, even if it's the reality of the world outside of the story. How many movies have had this "common trope" from the last two decades aside from the first Avatar? I can name dozens with strong brown wahmin at the forefront, but it's rare to even get a white male protagonist presented in a consistently positive light, let alone treated as a savior. Even The Great Wall, a movie I 100% expected to have the trope, actually subverted my expectations to my surprise, having the white man be a big help but hardly the lone hero that all the Chinese had to cower behind.

It was common fifty fucking years ago, maybe. Yes, Jake is a race traitor bitch, that's why I find it funny how you felt the need to complain about it not once but twice.
 
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The launch weekend revenue projections have kept freefalling, with everyone in the media desperately hoping that the legs will save it.

They went from “$175-200M domestic, $525-600M worldwide” at the very highest numbers, then suddenly they dropped to “$150-175M domestic, $525M worldwide” when the actual sales started coming in, now it’s down to a low of “$130-150 domestic, $410M worldwide” and we’re not even through Saturday.

Actually getting to the two billion needed to break even, according to Cameron, is getting less and less likely at this point.

I fully expect this film to have the legs to get past $1B, maybe even $1.5, yet with this kind of drop I don’t see it getting anywhere close to breaking even at this rate, not even China’s meeting expectations for it.

Worth noting that next week’s Puss in Boots sequel might actually take a bit more attention away over the holidays than one might expect it to. Probably won’t be #1, yet it’s genuinely getting higher review scores than this is (97% RT, 75 MC, vs. 78% RT, 69 MC for Avatar 2) at effectively half the length, so it might be a more attractive family play than having to block out 3+ hours to see a movie that is only being lauded for its effects and nothing else.
 
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WhiskeyJack said:
the tech level of the humans would largely negate the need to take anything from Pandora. Just clone the whales or chemically rebuild the serum in a lab, if you can't be assed to wipe out the locals with a cheap bioweapon. And hording a serum/element that isn't particularly useful to your tribe but would save another advanced species makes your tribe come off as selfish, greedy assholes, not the corporation trying to take the macguffin to save humanity.
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This is a good point, it happens a lot in sci-fi stories where they try super hard to make them allegories for right now but it ends up just not making sense. Like the recent Star Trek Picard show where you have poverty/starvation in what has been previously established as a utopian future with replicators that can make unlimited food, fresh water, or other resources.

If humans can create avatar cat bodies and mind-meld with them and do interstellar travel, then they can get the secret whale juice through much easier means.

Trigger Me Timbers said:
God I fucking hate the Na’vi so fucking much, with their thick lips and wide noses breathing up all the humans air. Did you know Na’Vi don’t have a word for future? There thick skulls can’t fathom A world where technology rules because they’re too fucking stupid.
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The movie should have just been twenty minutes of a resurrected non-furry Stephen Lang exterminating the Na'vi while that "White man marches on" song from American History X plays, only with slightly altered lyrics to no longer be about African Americans and person of the Jewish faith but instead about the Na'vi.
 
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You know, looking back at it, I'm shocked nobody told Cameron to just buy the film rights to the Pern Novels. That way he'd have a ready-made story to go with his fancy digital effects demo-reel, from a franchise with an established fanbase and numerous books to pull from. It's even got a pretty obvious environmental message, that isn't annoyingly preachy, with an alien-organism serving as the main threat as basically Acid Rain on steroids. And most of the human antagonists are evil, backwards, patriarchal males. It's perfect!

The Dragonriders of Pern books have people learning to fly dragons (check) via a weird mental/telepathic connection to the dragon (check), on an alien planet with alien lifeforms (check), natives living in primitive conditions (check), there's even a whole sub-story about genetically enhanced, intelligent dolphins (check). It's really got everything that Cameron could possibly want.

And it's all secretly a science-fiction story with Pern turning out to be a post-apocalyptic setting; the planet is a lost human colony, complete with gene-edited dragons and a human spaceship still hanging in orbit. It even has time-travel as a major plot point and an advanced AI, which are all right down Cameron's alley.

Best of all, the main character is a poor, working class woman who is secretly a noblewoman with telepathic powers slumming it to fight back against a "toxic" male who stole her home and is described as being basically the most attractive chick around, as part of the Cinderella-inspired plot. So you've got a perfect main character for a modern Woke film, and a lore-based excuse to give her sex appeal for the broader audience.
 
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Crescent Fresh said:
Actually getting to the two billion needed to break even, according to Cameron, is getting less and less likely at this point.

I fully expect this film to have the legs to get past $1B, maybe even $1.5, yet with this kind of drop I don’t see it getting anywhere close to breaking even at this rate, not even China’s meeting expectations for it.
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Apologies if this was covered earlier in the thread, but I thought Cameron said that all 3 sequels needed to make 2 billion combined to break even? Or did they really bank on just one sequel making that much? I've heard some conflicting reports and I feel that 2 billion from 3 movies is a much more realistic business strategy. If it's really 2 billion from one film, they are thoroughly screwed. No way this is going to get enough people to see it, the word of mouth isn't even that positive if you ignore the paid shilling.
 
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urr13 account said:
This is a good point, it happens a lot in sci-fi stories where they try super hard to make them allegories for right now but it ends up just not making sense. Like the recent Star Trek Picard show where you have poverty/starvation in what has been previously established as a utopian future with replicators that can make unlimited food, fresh water, or other resources.

If humans can create avatar cat bodies and mind-meld with them and do interstellar travel, then they can get the secret whale juice through much easier means.
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This implies James Cameron cares about writing a good story. He just wants to make theme park rides and trying to one-up himself on what can be done with special effects. The story is unnecessary to him beyond basic ass tropes and making every cliche possible.
 
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Fount of BadSpeak said:
It's really not, even if it's the reality of the world outside of the story. How many movies have had this "common trope" from the last two decades aside from the first Avatar? I can name dozens with strong brown wahmin at the forefront, but it's rare to even get a white male protagonist presented in a consistently positive light, let alone treated as a savior. Even The Great Wall, a movie I 100% expected to have the trope, actually subverted my expectations to my surprise, having the white man be a big help but hardly the lone hero that all the Chinese had to cower behind.

It was common fifty fucking years ago, maybe. Yes, Jake is a race traitor bitch, that's why I find it funny how you felt the need to complain about it not once but twice.
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It's not specifically a trope of film, but just stories in general. And it is more common than you'd think, even in these woke times. It's just that now it's usually a white girl, not some British guy on safari or some white actor teaching inner city gangbangers to do their homework.

Game_of_Thrones_Mhysa.jpg
 
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Smity Werbenjagermanjensen said:
Regarding the whole "personality cloning" shenanigans, a good writer would explore the existential meaning of such a concept like SOMA did. Of course, it's always possible they do so in the future films, but something tells me the talent isn't there to explore it at all and if they do it would do a shitty job at it.
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The personality cloning is just there so the Colonel could be a bad guy again because he's the only strong villain in these movies while the other humans are from any environmentalist cartoon.
 
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Fount of BadSpeak said:
It's really not, even if it's the reality of the world outside of the story. How many movies have had this "common trope" from the last two decades aside from the first Avatar? I can name dozens with strong brown wahmin at the forefront, but it's rare to even get a white male protagonist presented in a consistently positive light, let alone treated as a savior. Even The Great Wall, a movie I 100% expected to have the trope, actually subverted my expectations to my surprise, having the white man be a big help but hardly the lone hero that all the Chinese had to cower behind.

It was common fifty fucking years ago, maybe. Yes, Jake is a race traitor bitch, that's why I find it funny how you felt the need to complain about it not once but twice.
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Pop culture has basically stalled the last two decades. It will forever be 2004, Bush is in power, conservatives are not yet completely controlled opposition, and putting a gay character is stunning and brave. That's why whenever you have some faggot talking about the evils of media he'll mention tropes that haven't been in effect for literal decades.

Like having a good looking female character in something that isn't anime is near impossible, let alone her doing fanservice.
 
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WhiskeyJack said:
It's not specifically a trope of film, but just stories in general. And it is more common than you'd think, even in these woke times. It's just that now it's usually a white girl, not some British guy on safari or some white actor teaching inner city gangbangers to do their homework.
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I know it exists, I am simply denying that it's anywhere near so common as to deserve that kind of a response, or that it's remotely common nowadays given the obsession with "diversity" and making white men evil and/or bumbling morons. I suppose you could make an argument for a few white and """white""" girl bosses fitting the classic trope, but none come to mind presently. Also doesn't that chick go nuts at the end of the show and start slaughtering a bunch of innocent people?
 
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Fount of BadSpeak said:
Apologies if this was covered earlier in the thread, but I thought Cameron said that all 3 sequels needed to make 2 billion combined to break even? Or did they really bank on just one sequel making that much? I've heard some conflicting reports and I feel that 2 billion from 3 movies is a much more realistic business strategy. If it's really 2 billion from one film, they are thoroughly screwed. No way this is going to get enough people to see it, the word of mouth isn't even that positive if you ignore the paid shilling.
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He was specifically talking about a single film, that it would have to be in the top 5 of films ever made to break even. The numbers given for the film’s budget don’t line up with that ($350M, not including marketing and potentially reshoots) yet that is what he said.
 
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Crescent Fresh said:
He was specifically talking about a single film, that it would have to be in the top 5 of films ever made to break even. The numbers given for the film’s budget don’t line up with that ($350M, not including marketing and potentially reshoots) yet that is what he said.
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The budget for Hollywood films can be whatever they pull out of their ass. Sometimes they include marketing costs and sometimes they don't. Unless we have a break down of how much exactly everything cost there is no way of knowing.

If Cameron is saying it needs to make a billion to break even then that would mean the budget is closer to half a billion. So maybe, 350 million in production costs and somewhere around 100 million for marketing and greasing the wheels of the shill media?

I don't think this will hit a billion for a variety of reasons:

Lack of a cultural footprint being the big one.

The "magic" and allure of spectacle 3D films is gone. The first movie had the advantage of saying it was the most epic 3D movie ever made and that attracted people out of curiosity. Nowadays people don't care that much about 3D.

We are in a recession. Even people looking for an escapist thrill is not going to spend $20+ on a 3D movie. That's where the first movie made bank was from the exorbitant costs to see it in 3D.

I also don't think there's much in terms of kid appeal. Kids like superheroes. I don't think kids like giant weird blue aliens.
 
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