Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

[AverageAnimeWatcher]

What is Chief O'Brien's .....
No, STD.

That reminds, you know, something I don't think has gotten much attention as it should is how Chief O'Brien's served under both Captain Picard and Sisko, for him, Sisko is the best captain.

Can't argue with one of the few men that actually got to be lead by the two.

As for me, Odo is my favorite Security officer (maybe tied with Work if he has the job). He was amazing, in that despite being a changeling he was so human, one of the best DS9... no best Star Trek characters period.

What admired the most about him is how pure and relentless he was for justice. He could've been a god and, instead, he chose his friends, even if it was just for a while before getting back to the link.

It was always a joy seeing Rene and he is gonna be missed a lot.

 

[UnKillFill]

That reminds, you know, something I don't think has gotten much attention is how Chief O'Brien's served under both Captain Picard and, for him, Sisko is the best captain.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=-2mWRuei5B8:99

Makes sense, Sisko is the only captain in Starfleet that hates the Cardies as much as he does. (Maybe Jellico does too.)

 

[XYZpdq]

Regarding Gene Rod, don't forget he wasn't the only voice in charge on TOS, there was Gene Coon and all too. So if Rod wanted to go off the deep end there were other people to drag him back, like the inserted line with "makind doesn't need gods, we find the one to be sufficient" or however it went.
I recall years ago a Hollywood crap auction that included some TOS production memos and one of them was blasting Rod for how some script sucked and the characterizations were all wrong or things along those lines.

 

[UnKillFill]

Regarding Gene Rod, don't forget he wasn't the only voice in charge on TOS, there was Gene Coon and all too. So if Rod wanted to go off the deep end there were other people to drag him back, like the inserted line with "makind doesn't need gods, we find the one to be sufficient" or however it went.
I recall years ago a Hollywood crap auction that included some TOS production memos and one of them was blasting Rod for how some script sucked and the characterizations were all wrong or things along those lines.

Wasn't Lucille Ball also massively important to making TOS a thing? I don't know if she was actually credited as a producer on TOS (and I'm too lazy to check) but I would imagine she had at least some say in the show regardless...

 

[XYZpdq]

Wasn't Lucille Ball also massively important to making TOS a thing? I don't know if she was actually credited as a producer on TOS (and I'm too lazy to check) but I would imagine she had at least some say in the show regardless...

I know it was through Desilu, dunno about the exact relationship.

 

[UnKillFill]

I know it was through Desilu, dunno about the exact relationship.

Let's be honest, "Desilu" was basically Lucille Ball.

 

[Oaat]

Something almost everyone forgotten was the Federation was primarily in the Beta Quadrant and smaller portion was in the Alpha Quadrant. Janeway if anything had chosen the scenic route instead beelining for the Beta Quadrant which would have granted safer passage through either Romulan or Klingon space to get to the Federation

Compared to the size of the entire galaxy the Federation isn't big enough for that to change the route.

 

[Krokodil Overdose]

Also, I don't know where the meme phrase "vision of Gene Roddenberry" comes from.

From his wife and the marketing department (there's significant overlap there.) I know I've repeated this anecdote before, but still: "Gene Roddenberry did two great things for Star Trek: first, he created it, and second, he died." Once he popped his clogs, they could sort of paper over all of his... eccentricities, as you so politely phrased it, and tell a tall tale about him as a utopian visionary who wanted the best of all possible worlds for everyone blah blah woof woof. Note that the best Trek was either him working under severe restraints, or not being involved at all; once he was given free rein, as in the first season of TNG, he was fucking insufferable.

Basically "Roddenberry's vision" is an empty phrase that contains less information than "good stuff." It exists only to invoke Roddenberry, the meme, while avoiding the sleaze of Roddenberry, the man.

 

[Uranus Pink]

.

Compared to the size of the entire galaxy the Federation isn't big enough for that to change the route.

In terms of distance true, however when traveling thru unexplored territories it is generally safer to minimize time spent where the maps would have "here be monsters" warnings placed on them. Granted Janeway kind of made it a point to drag ass and sight see every single parsec of the Delta Quadrant does render this line of discussion kind of moot.

On Voyager should have look more franken ship instead of pristine, according to the series itself the Voyager crew have been making repairs and refits with whatever parts they could get their hands for tbe whole duration of their journey. Even if in pristine condition Voyager should've been visually different from her Intrepid class sisters given all of the non-StarFleet spec equipment she had.

 

[TaimuRadiu]

Something almost everyone forgotten was the Federation was primarily in the Beta Quadrant and smaller portion was in the Alpha Quadrant. Janeway if anything had chosen the scenic route instead beelining for the Beta Quadrant which would have granted safer passage through either Romulan or Klingon space to get to the Federation

"Safer" through Romulan space, when the knife ears would have happily thrown the entire crew in camps and gutted the Voyager for all its worth?

Wasn't Lucille Ball also massively important to making TOS a thing? I don't know if she was actually credited as a producer on TOS (and I'm too lazy to check) but I would imagine she had at least some say in the show regardless...

She hated the Great Bird's guts and nearly canceled TOS over him casting his side pieces on the show.

Shatner's going to outlive them all.

Shitposting keeps you young, it's why Trump is so vigorous

 

[Uranus Pink]

"Safer" through Romulan space, when the knife ears would have happily thrown the entire crew in camps and gutted the Voyager for all its worth?

I would only get close enough to the border to technobabble control of Rommie communication equipment to technobabble a message to StarFleet Voyager is near the Romulan Empire and request suggestions on how to proceed. Preferably those involving a moderate sized Fed and/or Klingon escort fleet to keep the Rommies honest.

 

[XYZpdq]

From his wife and the marketing department (there's significant overlap there.) I know I've repeated this anecdote before, but still: "Gene Roddenberry did two great things for Star Trek: first, he created it, and second, he died." Once he popped his clogs, they could sort of paper over all of his... eccentricities, as you so politely phrased it, and tell a tall tale about him as a utopian visionary who wanted the best of all possible worlds for everyone blah blah woof woof. Note that the best Trek was either him working under severe restraints, or not being involved at all; once he was given free rein, as in the first season of TNG, he was fucking insufferable.

Basically "Roddenberry's vision" is an empty phrase that contains less information than "good stuff." It exists only to invoke Roddenberry, the meme, while avoiding the sleaze of Roddenberry, the man.

a while back in this thread I observed

Gene Roddenberry is truly the greatest mythmaker of the 20th Century. In that he created the myth of Gene Roddenberry.

 

[Stab You in the Back]

Star Trek is largely fantasy fulfillment for Roddenberry; an impossible future where humanity has evolved to be both rational and compassionate, equal yet clearly white/male

This is the second time someone here has advanced the 'Gene was a white supremacist' theory. Is there any evidence to back it up, or is it just a retarded SJW reinterpretation of 60s casting decisions?

 

[Negilum]

This is the second time someone here has advanced the 'Gene was a white supremacist' theory. Is there any evidence to back it up, or is it just a exceptional SJW reinterpretation of 60s casting decisions?

Come on man, are you choosing to be exceptional or did you just not read what I wrote.

Also, I don't know where the meme phrase "vision of Gene Roddenberry" comes from. Whenever the morals or politics of the Star Trek universe are described, it's always described specifically as his "vision." If any of you want to see what Roddenberry originally envisioned, then go watch The Cage, Roddenberry's first pilot for Star Trek. It's essentially a 1950s cerebral adventure serial set in space, where virtually every actor is a huyite male. Concepts such as the United Federation of Planets and full social/economic/sexual/racial equality were created by his colleagues. While Roddenberry personally adhered to these ideas, he would strongly disagree with 2019's interpretation: a r'etarded, black, morally ambigious (and also sexually ambigious) tranny ramming spaceships into alien orifices.

I'll reiterate:
The point is despite all the praise he recieves for being a "visionary" for equality, his "vision" was only surface level. Virtually every cast member is White, and the vast majority are male; every non-Western character is essentially a token character. This is because Roddenberry created Star Trek as a space adventure serial set in space, concepts such as the Federation were created by his colleagues. In practice, Roddenberry agreed with these principles, but his main goal was to make his space adventure show. When people started praising him for being so "progressive" and "visionary," Roddenberry went along with it, and embraced these ideas as if they were his own.

Roddenberry was just some eccentric guy from the 60s who wanted to make his space show, he started being called a "visionary" for things he didn't do (but probably loosely believed in), and he went along with it.

 

[Cyril Sneer]

This is the second time someone here has advanced the 'Gene was a white supremacist' theory. Is there any evidence to back it up, or is it just a exceptional SJW reinterpretation of 60s casting decisions?

I guess it depends on how you define "white supremacist." My thinking is that Roddenberry's/TOS's mid-century progressiveism was premised on a vision of the future where all the human races worked together, under the cultural auspices of what was (implicitly) ascendant western (read "white") civilization. Consequently, I expect that modern American identity politics, where white males serve as a sort of boogieman to weld otherwise fractious and potentially mutually-hostile minority demographics into Democrat-aligned voting blocs, would be as alien to Roddenberry and the writing staff of TOS as anything encountered by Kirk and co. in the depths of space. I suppose you could call that a "white supremacist" attitude, but that seems to me like a very simplistic and un-nuanced interpretation.

On a side-note, asserting that, only in "an impossible future" would you find a military force whose members are primarily white and male, is just silly.

 

[Negilum]

I guess it depends on how you define "white supremacist." My thinking is that Roddenberry's/TOS's mid-century progressiveism was premised on a vision of the future where all the human races worked together, under the cultural auspices of what was (implicitly) ascendant western (read "white") civilization. Consequently, I expect that modern American identity politics, where white males serve as a sort of boogieman to weld otherwise fractious and potentially mutually-hostile minority demographics into Democrat-aligned voting blocs, would be as alien to Roddenberry and the writing staff of TOS as anything encountered by Kirk and co. in the depths of space. I suppose you could call that a "white supremacist" attitude, but that seems to me like a very simplistic and un-nuanced interpretation.

On a side-note, asserting that, only in "an impossible future" would you find a military force whose members are primarily white and male, is just silly.

side-note on that side-note: the "impossible future" bit is mostly just referring to the general optimism and structure that Star Trek espouses. I have no doubt that in the real world, the civilized world will have a military force mostly White/male, but the Star Trek universe is about the transcension of humanity into rational and equal beings. Which, I think, is impossible.

 

[Francis E. Dec Esc.]

I love the episode The Neutral Zone just for the way they wrote Picard. I bet they didn't notice that they wrote him as a pretentious fedora douchebag and made the "past" look more interesting than the future.

The unfozen 21st century businessman was one of my favorite one-shot TNG characters. Fun fact: he was played by the same actor who played 'Agent for HARM' on MST3K.

 

[Stab You in the Back]

Roddenberry was just some eccentric guy from the 60s who wanted to make his space show, he started being called a "visionary" for things he didn't do (but probably loosely believed in), and he went along with it.

I'm not arguing that people tend to attribute things to Gene which he didn't expressly believe or practice, but when you state shit like this

Virtually every cast member is White, and the vast majority are male; every non-Western character is essentially a token character.

you've wandered into drooling idiot territory. You can't infer the sincerity or insincerity of Gene's beliefs based solely on the cast of a network television show produced in the 1960s. Star Trek wasn't created in a bubble. It was created with intense pressures from the network and advertisers, and the show's leads are going to reflect that pressure.

 

[Manwithn0n0men]

So if you give me a Star Trek Series: here is what I would make

The Klingon Empire is a mess.
The Romulan and Cardassian Empires are in Ruins
The Federation is wounded but still functional
The Ferengi alliance is going through Rom's reforms
The Borg are decimated
The Dominion is chasened

So the Federation is a Wounded Hyperpower that COULD dominate the Galaxy with ease

lets dig into that

 

[Cyril Sneer]

side-note on that side-note: the "impossible future" bit is mostly just referring to the general optimism and structure that Star Trek espouses. I have no doubt that in the real world, the civilized world will have a military force mostly White/male, but the Star Trek universe is about the transcension of humanity into rational and equal beings. Which, I think, is impossible.

Thanks for the clarification.

I'm not arguing that people tend to attribute things to Gene which he didn't expressly believe or practice, but when you state shit like [redacted] you've wandered into drooling idiot territory. You can't infer the sincerity or insincerity of Gene's beliefs based solely on the cast of a network television show produced in the 1960s. Star Trek wasn't created in a bubble. It was created with intense pressures from the network and advertisers, and the show's leads are going to reflect that pressure.

I think it's fair to say that Gene believed above all in what was good for Gene (consider the cringe-worthy lyrics he wrote for Alexander Courage's TOS intro theme just to get a cut of the residuals, or the aforementioned attempt to crowbar the chintzy "IDIC" medallion into the show so as to generate demand for plastic replicas).

So if you give me a Star Trek Series: here is what I would make

The Klingon Empire is a mess.
The Romulan and Cardassian Empires are in Ruins
The Federation is wounded but still functional
The Ferengi alliance is going through Rom's reforms
The Borg are decimated
The Dominion is chasened

So the Federation is a Wounded Hyperpower that COULD dominate the Galaxy with ease

lets dig into that

In my ideal timeline, a CBS exec comes out and announces that the next Trek show is going to revolve around the Romulan War, it's going to fully embrace the TOS aesthetic and Kirk's "I'm a soldier, not a diplomat" mindset, and it's gonna use Michael Burnham and Philippa Georgieu as the reason for why women were not allowed to command starships in Kirk's era.