Incel and Lonely Men Debate thread - Defend men giving up or tell them otherwise

[Tomboy Respecter]

View attachment 2853037
Thoughts?

Imagine taking a fucking leaf seriously. Lmao.

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

Manosphere spergs have a point that the dating market is skewed in favor of women; what they fail to appreciate is that a lot of this is to blame on men themselves, and the standards they set for women.

The reason women generally find it easier to find a date than men is because they usually have standards beyond "he looks half-decent and he's interested"; they also want someone who's interesting to be around, has hobbies, is of good character, can provide for themselves, and shares some of their interests/values.

If more guys actually had standards like this for women, and weren't simply willing to settle for the first chick who was willing to have sex with them, then not only would the dating scene be a lot more equitable between the sexes, but they'd arguably make themselves more attractive to the opposite sex too, since having standards generally gives you the incentive to live up to them yourself.

I said something to this effect once and got accused of being a snob/unreasonable.

I have found that lots of men have no standard for a woman beyond being nice and pretty, and having a mind of their own is an actual turnoff to them. It’s like if nice guys were actually successful, and then genderflipped. It’s like they want a meatpuppet.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

I've accepted being an incel. I was the typical fat lonely kid in school and high school. Getting fit was a double edged sword when it comes to relationships. Girls suddenly payed attention to me, but due to years of being a sperg made me dislike them more. Any ''flirty'' comment, or a girl touching my biceps I would automatically assume it was made in jest or to mock me. I'm not mentally capable of maintaining a relationship, nor do I want to put in so much work for nothing in return. Sex once a month at best? I'd rather play video games.

Unless you have some objectively unfixable problem then you should not give up like that.

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

It becomes a vicious circle as the tension and stress of finding someone increasingly takes over from any semblance of fun, if it was ever there at all.

There is a big problem right there, if dating/flirting isn’t even fun to someone.

 

[DuckSucker]

People who aren't confident get called absolutely nothing, because nobody remembers them. Confidence is just noticeability, in the same way that celebrities get laid - it's not the fact that they're attractive or impressive, it's the fact that they're noticed by a great many people.

I think this is a better way to describe it--yes people are attracted to confident people, if those people can back it up. And they are usually more positive, because they know they can do it, and they have that experience.

If youre confident and you cant hack it, youre cocky and you look stupid, youre some asshole talking shit. If youre confident but too forceful, youre boorish and boasting and you look like a try hard dick. But nobody wants somebody who is always apologizing or seeking affirmation, its why insecurity is a huge turn off, and nobody wants someone who is and has nothing.

Its about knowing when to be firm and when to yield, that old saying about the tree that stands strong against winds too powerful breaking, while the branch that can bend will make it.

No. Confidence is stability, the most attractive trait you can have. When you have someone who knows what hes doing, you feel safe around him.

Someone who does what they say and gets shit done. And stable and firm or a strong spirit in general I guess.

 

[DavidS877]

There is a big problem right there, if dating/flirting isn’t even fun to someone.

I've been on a couple dates and a ton of job interviews. The job interviews have been more fun, and if I answer all the questions correctly maybe I get a new job doing new stuff and more money. If I answer all the date questions right, maybe I get another date and have to do it all over again, and again, and again, and again.

 

[Johan Hulth]

There is a big problem right there, if dating/flirting isn’t even fun to someone.

I'd go so far as to say that it is THE problem. At least when it comes to incels vs otherwise unattractive people who aren't neurotic about it. Trying to bond with someone while having a panic attack isn't really that sexy it turns out.

 

[Car Won't Crank]

I've been on a couple dates and a ton of job interviews. The job interviews have been more fun, and if I answer all the questions correctly maybe I get a new job doing new stuff and more money. If I answer all the date questions right, maybe I get another date and have to do it all over again, and again, and again, and again.

You even get free water bottles or get to use those fancy coffee machines for free at job interviews!

 

[DavidS877]

You even get free water bottles or get to use those fancy coffee machines for free at job interviews!

The nicer ones paid for lunch. Usually as part of the interview with the team of course. One I walked into the office and they offered me a beer. I think they were kidding because it wasn't even noon yet. But they did have beer on tap.

 

[Ingmar Aspergman]

Legitimately how the fuck do you talk to a woman:

You must be entertaining without speaking too much about yourself, or things you specifically are passionate about that the other party most likely couldn’t give less of a shit about.

You must listen but if you just listen then there is no reason for them to try to reconnect because anyone could do that and they know nothing about you.

You must be confident without being arrogant and assertive without being too forward otherwise that could be predatory, but also humble without becoming vulnerable or self deprecating.

The only conclusion I can think of is if there is already a physical attraction that’s when there can be some resemblance of compromise because whatever you say no longer matters as much lol

This is why autists are fucked

 

[Dreamer]

You must be entertaining without speaking too much about yourself, or things you specifically are passionate about that the other party most likely couldn’t give less of a shit about.

You must listen but if you just listen then there is no reason for them to try to reconnect because anyone could do that and they know nothing about you.

You must be confident without being arrogant and assertive without being too forward otherwise that could be predatory, but also humble without becoming vulnerable or self deprecating.

Holy fuck, this is so hard. You HAVE TO talk but you CANT talk too quiet because then you're whispering and you CANT talk too loud because you're shouting.
This is completely impossible.

How about you stop trying to overanalyze every little detail and go for trial and error?
>you don't want to pay for expensive dinner dates
Then don't do it, try to find someone who doesn't want that from you, they exist
>you're severely autistic and can barely socialize
Then find someone else who is as autistic as you, its not like you could tell the difference
>cant find a hot single in your area
Search a different area a bit further away
Find simple solutions to simple problems instead of growing every little issue out to be a impossible challenge.

If you really have to autistically analyze something try to analyze your need for a partner, where it comes from and what is it specifically.
Answers might surprise you.

On a side note i really appreciate how every tread about incels ultimately devolves into a tread where incels bitch and moan at one another with everyone else checked the fuck out.

 

[Ingmar Aspergman]

Holy fuck, this is so hard. You HAVE TO talk but you CANT talk too quiet because then you're whispering and you CANT talk too loud because you're shouting.
This is completely impossible.

How about you stop trying to overanalyze every little detail and go for trial and error?
>you don't want to pay for expensive dinner dates
Then don't do it, try to find someone who doesn't want that from you, they exist
>you're severely autistic and can barely socialize
Then find someone else who is as autistic as you, its not like you could tell the difference
>cant find a hot single in your area
Search a different area a bit further away
Find simple solutions to simple problems instead of growing every little issue out to be a impossible challenge.

If you really have to autistically analyze something try to analyze your need for a partner, where it comes from and what is it specifically.
Answers might surprise you.

On a side note i really appreciate how every tread about incels ultimately devolves into a tread where incels bitch and moan at one another with everyone else checked the fuck out.

The reason I’m over-analyzing is because the alternative of “lmao I’m not that attractive” gets shot down by you all

 

[Dreamer]

The reason I’m over-analyzing is because the alternative of “lmao I’m not that attractive” gets shot down by you all

"im not listening to you because im not listening to you"
Yeah i know.
Look, if you're not attractive, try to date someone who is not attractive .Level the playing field.
If you're ugly, try to date someone who is ugly. you should know yourself that looks don't make a man, correct?

"But i wanted a 10/10 bimbo, why do they reject me???"
You shouldn't complain about vapid bitches when you're one yourself yes?
Im not 100% on weather you are like this or not but in my experience incels are predominately unwilling to accept their own faults/flaws and as a cope they chase after people who don't have them. Don't do that. Opposites only occasionally attract.

 

[smeckt]

there is nothing wrong with incels or the beachwhales who wan't 6'1, 6-figures muscular boyfriends. if you are not trying to date above your league, you are not doing your future children any favour

 

[Ingmar Aspergman]

"im not listening to you because im not listening to you"
Yeah i know.
Look, if you're not attractive, try to date someone who is not attractive .Level the playing field.
If you're ugly, try to date someone who is ugly. you should know yourself that looks don't make a man, correct?

"But i wanted a 10/10 bimbo, why do they reject me???"
You shouldn't complain about vapid bitches when you're one yourself yes?
Im not 100% on weather you are like this or not but in my experience incels are predominately unwilling to accept their own faults/flaws and as a cope they chase after people who don't have them. Don't do that. Opposites only occasionally attract.

Can this “you only want 10/10 bimbos” meme finally die

Edit: it seems impossible for someone to reply to any similar sentiment without extrapolating a metric ton of shit. “How girls want to be talked to doesn’t make sense” gets translated as “I’m entitled to sex/I want a walking fleshlight/I am morally perfect/etc.”

 

[Secret Messages]

Legitimately how the fuck do you talk to a woman:

You must be entertaining without speaking too much about yourself, or things you specifically are passionate about that the other party most likely couldn’t give less of a shit about.

You must listen but if you just listen then there is no reason for them to try to reconnect because anyone could do that and they know nothing about you.

You must be confident without being arrogant and assertive without being too forward otherwise that could be predatory, but also humble without becoming vulnerable or self deprecating.

The only conclusion I can think of is if there is already a physical attraction that’s when there can be some resemblance of compromise because whatever you say no longer matters as much lol

This is why autists are fucked

Do you have irl male friends? Not to be rude but you’re overthinking conversation way too much. Just talk to them like you talk to your friends, and test the waters by flirting a little bit to see if she’s interested. If you don’t have male friends, work on that first. Trying to go from internet nofriends autist -> girlfriend while skipping a male social circle of your own is a herculean task and setting yourself up for failure.

t. kissless sperg all throughout high school until I turned off my computer and went outside. You can’t manifest a relationship in your bedroom, you have to go outside and shoot your shot. If I can do it you can too.

 

[Mr Bunny]

Always have a wingman, he's a good wingman if they're someone who you can bounce off very well and show-off your sense of humor.

Well that use to be the case but now people think you're a gay couple.

 

[Kermit Jizz]

there is nothing wrong with incels or the beachwhales who wan't 6'1, 6-figures muscular boyfriends. if you are not trying to date above your league, you are not doing your future children any favour

There's a huge difference between wanting to date a 10/10 (literally everyone does) vs condemning your self to celibacy because no 10/10 will date you.

 

[smeckt]

There's a huge difference between wanting to date a 10/10 (literally everyone does) vs condemning your self to celibacy because no 10/10 will date you.

Well yeah, one is a thought and the other is an action. Natural selection in the works

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

The only difference between incels and sexually functioning men is the ability to flirt. That's it. That's all it is. Incels are people who have the same phobia/ aversion to flirting that a lot of people have to public speaking. It can't just be nervously reciting a script, it needs to be organic, because it's not what's said but how it's said. It has to be genuinely fun. Which is why a lot of PUA doesn't work. Not to mention how convoluted a lot of it is. I'm talking about absolutely tiny things - the second and a half of intense eye contact that got you your first kiss with your significant other, or that knowing momentary smile that led to a hookup. Incels are people who are almost physically incapable of experiencing those moments. Talking about things like social skills and communities are way too nebulous (middle-class dinner party social skills don't translate to stoner metal crew social skills or vice-versa). The only real dividing line ultimately is the ability to flirt.

While there are fringe obese loons, bronies and looks obsessed narcissists, it doesn't change the fact that all this big picture "change your life" self-improvement stuff is completely at cross purposes with the experiences of the vast majority. If anything the opposite should be taught to reduce the neurotic panic type responses these people are having. The best article I've seen on the subject is called "Radicalizing the Romanceless" and while it doesn't reach any particular conclusions, and drifts into doom, it is well sourced. Of particular note in relation to self-improvement:


https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/31/radicalizing-the-romanceless/

In my experience I think this is very true. I'm very comfortable with public speaking, have always given good speeches/presentations with lots of extemporaneous parts and humor in them. I don't feel near as comfortable socializing with strangers, but I can do it. Will talk to complete strangers more readily than I think most people of my generation do. But in a flirting situation I feel both completely uninterested and have no idea what to do. The only flirting that comes naturally to me is teasing, which a friend suggested might mean I’d actually do better with confident/energetic women which was a surprise to me but could be true. I haven’t actually asked a woman out in something like five years but only recall two interactions in that time where one seemed particularly approachable. Mostly I’ll mentally latch on to a particular woman but then do nothing about it.

And as regards self improvement, aside from fitness which is the one thing that could make a really big difference in my life, I feel like I’m very well rounded compared to most people and I fill my day up with productive things, I have a competitive career, but I don’t think people really give a shit about any of that junk besides somebody having a job, by and large people don’t give a fuck about hobbies outside of a narrow range of Things Everybody Likes. That’s assuming you get to the point of discussing stuff in the first place.