Argue about the capabilities and techs of Jet fighters, and how everyone is everyone else's sock account

[Makhno]

Sorry, I didn't know if chickenwire translated to Murican.
Use enough and you don't need extra weights, which makes your purchase history less interesting to investigators. Just FYI.

how do you not know to just take the anchor chain off some other poor fuck's boat from the dock so you don't have to carry it along with the body if you've done this before fren? Chicken wire is light as fuck and most bodies need an extra 50lbs to ensure they stay on bottom for the chickenwire to do its work. You must be a noob or swole as fuck to not mind extra weight. I can only imagine a corpse wrapped up looking like a Christmas tree in 300ft of chickenwire to get enough weight for the body to sink.

 

[prolapsed_cranium]

Ah yes, DCS. Most known for its 100% accuracy.

It's to show the concept.

He's not giving the calculus for it.

 

[Makhno]

I'm curious how that would work. That sounds like some advanced tech where a lot of things can go wrong. And if it's used improperly like the Javelins were it might get destroyed pretty quickly.

in order to avoid further shitting up thread with spergery I will try to do it in single post with some short video links. All modern NATO aircraft come with a datalink system to transmit/receive radar, targeting, and other data inflight from AWACS/E-3/specialty aircraft etc or other systems like laser designators/ other wingman's targeting pods to the plane's individual computer. You can also pass targeting off entirely through datalink for certain modes to AWACS or other aircraft. Furthermore the AWACS can also pass off data from sources very far from each other because it has massive transmit/receive arrays and flies at high altitude. Radar is king for modern air battlefield and EAW. Most modern AA and ASM missiles also are capable of either receiving information to their own datalink terminal or being programed by information passed through plane's computer through AWACS or other source like GPS/laser etc. Most missiles are fire are forget and the most modern ones are also able to be guided in by the radar of the AWACS and then only engage their own active homing radars/seekers when close to target. The advantage to this is that the enemy does not know he has an active missile lock until last moments, but competent pilots still have tricks like hugging the earth, notching, countermeasures etc etc to defeat missiles which is why I said training pilots for AA combat with F-16s was stupid and not ever happening. However, simply striking ground targets can be almost the entire work of computers beyond pressing a few buttons.

here is basic video explaining F-16 datalink; essentially with data link the plane never has to engage it's own active radar or use its own sensors.

here is basic video about engineering principles behind AWACS

 

[Yak-130 Mitten]

...all the while conveniently forgetting maximum range of radar on AWACS. I know its not relevant in games, but even there you have to recognize it.

 

[Makhno]

...all the while conveniently forgetting maximum range of radar on AWACS. I know its not relevant in games, but even there you have to recognize it.

ah yes you retarded nigger Ukraine is less than 800 miles wide and 350 miles long from the gay hohol Crimea measurements too and even that isn't big enough to not be in range of a single AWACS depending on flight path and two if you want to cover whole country at the same time. You realize Ukraine basically is bordered by NATO airbases on all sides from west and the Black Sea is international airspace right up to about 12 nautical miles from coast on southern border lol. I know critical thinking is not relevant to anything you do but you should try it for a second. the unclassified range of AWACS radar is 250 nautical miles for low level targets and 400 miles for medium and above. a simple read of a fucking wikipedia would have stopped you posting this try hard diatribe of a smug cunt.

Wiki

Its pulse-Doppler radar has a range of more than 250 mi (400 km) for low-flying targets at its operating altitude, and the pulse (BTH) radar has a range of approximately 400 mi (650 km) for aircraft flying at medium to high altitudes. The radar, combined with a secondary surveillance radar (SSR) and electronic support measures (ESM), provides a look down capability, to detect, identify, and track low-flying aircraft, while eliminating ground clutter returns.

 

[Kid Named Rocket]

ah yes you retarded nigger Ukraine is less than 800 miles wide and 350 miles long from the gay hohol Crimea measurements too and even that isn't big enough to not be in range of a single AWACS depending on flight path and two if you want to cover whole country at the same time. You realize Ukraine basically is bordered by NATO airbases on all sides from west and the Black Sea is international airspace right up to about 12 nautical miles from coast on southern border lol. I know critical thinking is not relevant to anything you do but you should try it for a second. the unclassified range of AWACS radar is 250 nautical miles for low level targets and 400 miles for medium and above. a simple read of a fucking wikipedia would have stopped you posting this try hard diatribe of a smug cunt.

Wiki

Nigga, you is retarded. I didn't read any of your shit, becauee all I see is a wall of autism runes mixed in with LARPing. Do us all a favor - please stop posting.
>b-but muh DCS simulations!!
might as well be using fucking Ace Combat gameplay lmao
>b-but I served in Iraq and Syria!!!
Even if you did and aren't lying, all it means is that you fought for Israel. Not a good look.

 

[Makhno]

View attachment 5063093

You do realize nations only have a 12 nautical mile boundary on airspace for marine borders, that planes based at a Polish airbase do not have to stay over Polish airspace, that NATO has airbases all over region,and that piglets are still in Odessa right? Nope why bother to think when your emotions simply tell you that you are right and I am wrong.

View attachment 5063267

Nigga, you is retarded. I didn't read any of your shit, becauee all I see is a wall of autism runes mixed in with LARPing. Do us all a favor - please stop posting.
>b-but muh DCS simulations!!
might as well be using fucking Ace Combat gameplay lmao
>b-but I served in Iraq and Syria!!!
Even if you did and aren't lying, all it means is that you fought for Israel. Not a good look.

oh wow the edgy fatherless faggot thinks it is cool enough on the internet to tell people who killed other human beings that they are LARPing because they know absolutely everything, how adorable. You're a clueless retard, I'm not simple as.

It doesn't, lying nigger, it's literally just an advert/propaganda video hyping it up as wunderwaffe.
It's probably not even capable of a fraction of what they say, as is common with Am*rican technology propaganda (see: Norden Bombsight)

All you dumb Dunning Kruger confirmation biased faggots who want a personal hug box are just as bad as the boilerplate retards of NAFO.

When the West eventually collapses watching people like you retards above die in the streets is going to be the greatest entertainment God ever supplied me.

I am curious about AWACS as I'm not familiar with it. When was it last effectively used? And what were the real world results?

As I think you may be one of few people not being completely facetious at this point here are your answers. They currently are using multiple AWACS every day to monitor Ukrainian airspace and help with air defense and targeting for things like SEAD and himars etc. Some are based in Poland some new ones just got moved to Romania to cover southern approaches. These fuckers are primarily two things 1) giant airborne radar stations 2) giant airborne communication relays. Flying high helps both with radar range and transmitting/receiving data. They do a bunch of other shit as well. AWACS are just one component of AEW aircraft; they are most popular which is why I used the term, also they are currently the ones favored in Ukraine. Attached is also a map showing AEW sorties over Ukraine. AWACS flights are the E3 flights on the map. If you look at map you can see how AEW flights crisscross the entire border of conflict region. The real world results of the AWACS and AEW in general alter the way war is fought. The Russians also have similar technology which they use in Ukraine as well; this was plane they tried to attack on runway in Belarus btw.

Spoiler: MAP

If you look at the map, only areas covered by 400mi radar from NATO or neutral airspace are Kherson, Crimea, parts of Zaporozhye and Chernigov region. Donbass is out of range. I doubt that Ukraine will get their own AWACS or that NATO planes will enter Ukraine's airspace.
AWACS is superior to ground radars, but only if you are able to protect it from enemy fighters.


By Russia, in Ukraine, to track low-profile targets and direct interceptors (since Russian AWACS doesn't have datalink, directions were given by voice over radio, lol). Also, by both sides for reconnaissance purposes, since AWACS can detect ground and naval targets, too.


It's just a flying radar, so everything that works against regular radars would work against it (except going low).

Look at map above and what I posted in this post at top about 12 nautical mile boundary around marine airspace. The Black Sea is international waters in most areas.

 

[tulskij_tochnyj]

Look at map above and what I posted in this post at top about 12 nautical mile boundary around marine airspace. The Black Sea is international waters in most areas.

Bringing a flying cow within this radius is not a smart idea. Existing tracks of AWACS (and after a certain incident, UAVs) are much further from the border. Plus, there could be additional restrictions for flights in Northern Black sea.

 

[Kid Named Rocket]

@Makhno
I don't really feel like arguing with a retard like you, so I made an AI text generator write my post for me. This is the last reply you're getting from me.

Makhno's outbursts on the internet are extremely alarming, and it's clear they are in desperate need of their schizophrenia medication. It is incredibly concerning that they keep insisting that they served as part of the US military in both Syria and Iraq and they are an expert in military-related matters. This is not only a false and dangerous claim, but it also serves to invalidate the experiences of those who actually did serve in the military with honor and courage. Not only is it disrespectful to the brave individuals who served, but it also paints a distorted picture of reality for those who are reading Makhno's posts.

Makhno's rantings should not be taken seriously and it's important to remember that their words are not based in reality. They need help, not a platform from which to spread their delusions. It is our responsibility to show Makhno the love and compassion they so desperately need, and encourage them to seek proper medical care and support. We must remember to be kind and understanding, and not to enable or normalize their behavior.

 

[IKOL]

... Fuck have I missed while being forumwide banned by some trannie jannie?
Hi boys and girls of all legal ages. Хохляндия сосать нах, Артемовск наш, Одесса будет наша тоже... сама по себе надеюсь, кек.

Edit: @Yak-130 Mitten is @attractive_pneumonia sock account that he uses to boost his own ego with. Both accounts are created within 1 day of each other and have same exact posting format and style while constantly sucking each other off; imagine my shock a shallow egotistical autistic faggot operates socks.

... Okay nigger? Whatever the fuck you were smocking I want this too. GIMME.

 

[Betonhaus]

... Fuck have I missed while being forumwide banned by some trannie jannie?

1. openly announcing that you were banned
2. not accepting fault for the ban
3. calling the moderators names

someone get a head of lettuce. let's see if this one can outlast Liz Truss.

 

[IKOL]

2. not accepting fault for the ban

Because I have had no faults to begin with.
Goddamn newfags, I fucking swear...

3. calling the moderators names

Have a full right for it when ban was total injustice completely.

Oh right, regarding topic:
Nosferatu in AC7 is BAE, fuck everyone saying otherwise
Dark Star is OP shit and I will roast every soyjack using this piss plane in MP.

 

[Betonhaus]

They currently are using multiple AWACS every day to monitor Ukrainian airspace and help with air defense and targeting for things like SEAD and himars etc. Some are based in Poland some new ones just got moved to Romania to cover southern approaches. These fuckers are primarily two things 1) giant airborne radar stations 2) giant airborne communication relays. Flying high helps both with radar range and transmitting/receiving data. They do a bunch of other shit as well. AWACS are just one component of AEW aircraft; they are most popular which is why I used the term, also they are currently the ones favored in Ukraine.

How difficult is it to jam the radar and communication from one of these planes, and would they be much more vulnerable to being shot down?

 

[draggs]

How difficult is it to jam the radar and communication from one of these planes, and would they be much more vulnerable to being shot down?

These are very powerful radars, they aren't easy to jam

And not easy to jam communications

And not easy to shoot down

The main reason is their range. They operate way outside even the longest range air to air missiles. The idea is any fighter would get shot down before it got close enough to launch a missile at the AWACS planes. It's also harder to jam a radar or comms signal the farther away it is from the jammer, especially modern military radars and comm equipment

They also operate beyond the range of modern SAMs

 

[cybertoaster]

View attachment 5050391
How about full on frigates? They do infact export weapons. Don't get me started on anti ship missiles, Iraq shot plenty at us in the Gulf War.

Have those frigates actually seen combat? or its like the JF-17 of which its only combat use beyond minor CAS operations is hitting an iranian recon drone and maybe downing an old af indian Mig-21?

BTW that does not mean that their weapons aren't good, there is the possibility that the J-20's stealth actually works and it can launch an ASM up a carrier's ass undetected (tho not so much when returning, look at those nozzles) but given what a shitshow russian weapons have been in ukraine and how much of the chicom's miltech is built upon russian miltech combined with the chabuduo mindset of chinese industry I wouldnt be surprised if a lot of people in beijing is doubting about their own equipment.

There are ~130 F-22s in actual combat units and the rest are dedicated to training. If that sounds like too many, don't worry, the Air Force is considering scrapping ~20 F-22s because the upgrade costs are too high.

We killed the F22 because "too expensive" then lost a trillion and a half on the F35.

Taiwan has one of the worlds best air forces and an air defense network second to none.

Come on now, they got a good air force but its not even top10. We havent been selling them the best stuff, just 10 years ago we finally sold them the F16s they wanted all the way back in 1980. These are V block 70 sure but still a 50yo airframe design, while even denmark is getting F35s to fight what? a bunch of rusted flankers and fulcrums that can't even cut it against other rusted flankers and fulcrums in ukraine? and these F16s will have to go straight against the J-20, a plane designed to counter the F-22.

Taiwan's air defenses are good specially their radars (tho they cheaped out at the PAWS expansion for 360 coverage) but if chinese stealth actually works I don't know how long those patriot batteries will last against chinese ARM.

 

[RodgerDodger]

We killed the F22 because "too expensive" then lost a trillion and a half on the F35.

We killed the F-22 because Lockheed Martin had wanted a massive F-15 tier export program. And when Congress barred export sales they weren't interested in playing anymore. Similarly with export sales killed the air force saw its price per unit skyrocket.

Whereas the F-35 had export sales baked in from day 1 through the "partner program". With nearing 1000 planes delivered and operational worldwide its not a boondoggle. And believe you me the US government is getting their cut of overseas sales.

The F-35 probably will see even its insanely high development costs mostly balanced by an overall lower costs per unit and lower costs of ownership.

 

[WelperHelper99]

Have those frigates actually seen combat? or its like the JF-17 of which its only combat use beyond minor CAS operations is hitting an iranian recon drone and maybe downing an old af indian Mig-21?

BTW that does not mean that their weapons aren't good, there is the possibility that the J-20's stealth actually works and it can launch an ASM up a carrier's ass undetected (tho not so much when returning, look at those nozzles) but given what a shitshow russian weapons have been in ukraine and how much of the chicom's miltech is built upon russian miltech combined with the chabuduo mindset of chinese industry I wouldnt be surprised if a lot of people in beijing is doubting about their own equipment.

Those were recently sold to Pakistan. Effectiveness of the equipment is unknown. But it is newer in terms of the ship itself, that's basically the entire PLAN in a nutshell. Even if western ships are superior, they have seen far less wear. You can't just boil ship combat to weapons. A lot comes down to crew.

 

[RodgerDodger]

BTW that does not mean that their weapons aren't good, there is the possibility that the J-20's stealth actually works and it can launch an ASM up a carrier's ass undetected (tho not so much when returning, look at those nozzles) but given what a shitshow russian weapons have been in ukraine and how much of the chicom's miltech is built upon russian miltech combined with the chabuduo mindset of chinese industry I wouldnt be surprised if a lot of people in beijing is doubting about their own equipment.

According to some credible reports I've see the J-20's are at best moderately stealthy. They are better than most 4th gen fighters. And way better than Russia's flying trasheap the Su-57. They have some stealth characteristics. But not enough to be considered actual Stealth Aircraft.

Here's the easy way to tell if an aircraft is effectively a stealth fighter in any practical way. Look at the engine intake ducts. Are they a straight line that offers a direct line of sight from the intake mouth to the front compressor fan of the engine? If the air duct is a straight line, it's not a stealth fighter. Stealth aircraft have S curves or similar in the ducting to mask the front of the engine, which is one of the most radar reflective things on any aircraft. The J-20 has straight ducts.

 

[Sammich]

You can choke on a Ham Chinese sandwich you butthurt little buck broken bitch along with every last retard who would rather feel good than know what they are talking about.

The thing is, you have no goddamn clue what you are talking about you stolen valor faggot.

 

[cybertoaster]

According to some credible reports I've see the J-20's are at best moderately stealthy. They are better than most 4th gen fighters. And way better than Russia's flying trasheap the Su-57. They have some stealth characteristics. But not enough to be considered actual Stealth Aircraft.

Here's the easy way to tell if an aircraft is effectively a stealth fighter in any practical way. Look at the engine intake ducts. Are they a straight line that offers a direct line of sight from the intake mouth to the front compressor fan of the engine? If the air duct is a straight line, it's not a stealth fighter. Stealth aircraft have S curves or similar in the ducting to mask the front of the engine, which is one of the most radar reflective things on any aircraft. The J-20 has straight ducts.

The J20 has the same diverterless intake the F35 has, they straight up copied it see:



The one that had a truly stealth "fuck your radar" inlet was the YF23:

But lockheed's lobby had more money than northrop's.

But even then the J20 has a different doctrine, its BVR-first, built around the "missile truck" idea of carrying a bunch of ordinance, flying really fast undetected into a target then shooting everything and GTFO back to base, that's why most of the stealth material and compromises and are at the front, the chinese didn't even bother to make the engine nozzles stealth like the F22's let alone the YF23 which even had active trail cooling.

As for the Su57 it actually had the potential to be a good plane but its saddled with russian corruption and shit-tier build quality.

Look at these fucking screws, its Mig21/F4 era quality at best.


And they can't even make a canopy without bubbles in the glass, literally lower quality than a Su27 made in the 80's.